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what is bonded ammunition?

This is a discussion on what is bonded ammunition? within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; I had an opportunity to get some Winchester Ranger SXTs in 45 ACP but now that I've placed my order I've been informed AFTER the ...


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Old 09-14-2007, 04:08 PM   #1
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what is bonded ammunition?

I had an opportunity to get some Winchester Ranger SXTs in 45 ACP but now that I've placed my order I've been informed AFTER the fact, of course, that they are out of stock until December. They offered to switch my order from the standard +P stuff (black talon without the scary name) to a bonded version of the same stuff.

Can someone explain what exactly bonded ammo is? and if you think it's a good idea to use this stuff as SD ammo or if I should just wait for the standard SXTs ? I've been carrying federal hydrashoks, but am almost out (been using them at the range to make sure they feed/eject properly in my gun) and I wanted to try out the SXTs after reading a few articles where they performed the most accurately and reliably during tests with various pistols.

links:

bonded: http://www.nles.com/store/customer/p...tid=1985&cat=0

standard: http://www.nles.com/store/customer/p...cat=174&page=1

Thanks!
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:12 PM   #2
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i think its where they somehow bond the lead to the copper jacket so when it hits a hard surface they dont sperate
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:12 PM   #3
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http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/0508/

"The bonding of the core to the jacket, on the other hand, acts to slow expansion, prevents fragmentation and greatly enhances weight retention. These things promote penetration"

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bonded_bullets.htm

http://www.clearwater-bullets.com/

http://www.officer.com/print/Law-Enf...e-Test/1$27983

Last edited by mvician; 09-14-2007 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvician View Post
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/0508/

"The bonding of the core to the jacket, on the other hand, acts to slow expansion, prevents fragmentation and greatly enhances weight retention. These things promote penetration"

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bonded_bullets.htm

http://www.clearwater-bullets.com/

http://www.officer.com/print/Law-Enf...e-Test/1$27983
thanks, I think I may have found some of those links while I was googling. What I've found so far seems to point towards a bullet that retains 100% of it's weight, improving penetration and slowing expansion. I found one article where they were testing bonded ammo by shooting at ballistics gel through auto glass. It seems to be popular with LE for it's penetration abilities. Seems like it would be good for killing BGs and large game, but maybe not a good choice when there might be innocents around who could get hit by the bullet after it's exited the BG. I'm just wondering if I should be using ammo with high penetration for self and home defense ammo. Seem like it might not be the best choice for those things.

Any other thoughts?

Last edited by rodder; 09-14-2007 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodder View Post
thanks, I think I may have found some of those links while I was googling. What I've found so far seems to point towards a bullet that retains 100% of it's weight, improving penetration and slowing expansion. I found one article where they were testing bonded ammo by shooting at ballistics gel through auto glass. It seems to be popular with LE for it's penetration abilities. Seems like it would be good for killing BGs and large game, but maybe not a good choice when there might be innocents around who could get hit by the bullet after it's exited the BG. I'm just wondering if I should be using ammo with high penetration for self and home defense ammo. Seem like it might not be the best choice for those things.

Any other thoughts?
I've got some too (Remington Golden Sabres). They were all out of the non-bonded ones, but I don't believe that the bonded ammo increases penetration all that much. Not enough to worry about anyway...
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:54 PM   #6
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No Ranger SXT or Ranger T-Series is made with a bonded bullet. We do have a Ranger Bonded jhp series of ammo but it is just that, a bonded jhp much like the Gold Dot.

The ammo may not be in as early as December. The ETA on my October 2006 Ranger 45 ammo was March of 2008. I did receive 50k of that order back in May. So maybe it will ship early maybe not.

Last edited by hotpig; 09-14-2007 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:31 PM   #7
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Your concern is valid IF you anticipate being in a situation where a pass through shot poses an unacceptable risk.

For myself my main concern is making sure that if I have to put a bad guy down he's not getting up and if I have to shoot through something to get them I want to be able to do so.

For apartment dwellers though or someone who lives in a home with children it is a reasonable concern but we each need to consider our own situations and make the best choice accordingly.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:23 AM   #8
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I think the value of bonded JHP depends a lot on caliber. High vel rounds, like the 357sig, can benefit quite a bit from a bonded JHP, Rounds like the 45acp, not so much, A well designed cup/core can perform just as well thru everything but steel & auto glass, not much of that around for the civ in a gunfight. The reduced expansion may or may not be helpful, the 45acp already has a good rep for penetration w/ any 230grJHP.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodder View Post
I had an opportunity to get some Winchester Ranger SXTs in 45 ACP but now that I've placed my order I've been informed AFTER the fact, of course, that they are out of stock until December. They offered to switch my order from the standard +P stuff (black talon without the scary name) to a bonded version of the same stuff.

Can someone explain what exactly bonded ammo is? and if you think it's a good idea to use this stuff as SD ammo or if I should just wait for the standard SXTs ? I've been carrying federal hydrashoks, but am almost out (been using them at the range to make sure they feed/eject properly in my gun) and I wanted to try out the SXTs after reading a few articles where they performed the most accurately and reliably during tests with various pistols.

links:

bonded: http://www.nles.com/store/customer/p...tid=1985&cat=0

standard: http://www.nles.com/store/customer/p...cat=174&page=1

Thanks!
Bonded is all I carry, Federal Tactical Bonded 135+p 9mm and 230g+p .45
If someone thinks the bad guys don't shoot from cover you should reconsider your stance. Whether its from behind a wall or couch or from a vehicle its still a plausible SD scenario. Its one of those things that its better to have and not need than to need and not have.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodder View Post
It seems to be popular with LE for it's penetration abilities. Seems like it would be good for killing BGs and large game, but maybe not a good choice when there might be innocents around who could get hit by the bullet after it's exited the BG. I'm just wondering if I should be using ammo with high penetration for self and home defense ammo. Seem like it might not be the best choice for those things.

Any other thoughts?
LEOs have different ammo needs than we do, and what they use may not be suitable for us. That being said, bonded or not, unless the shot is off the COM target and in a thin part of the body, VERY FEW self defense rounds will go "through and through". Over penetration is seldom a worry. Yes, you will see ballistics testing with claims of 14"-16" of penetration. That's through gel, which approximates human flesh. It doesn't take into account muscle, organs, and bone the bullet may hit. FWIW - I watched a perp being shot from a distance of 15' with a Glock .40 S&W. The round hit in the upper left chest. It did not exit. I don't know what ammo the officer was using.
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