Just the facts please! - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Boeydafunk · 11-10-2006, 04:44 PM

I think the reason that caliber questions come up, is because everyone gives there opinions and very few facts are presented. Please only post actual facts on this thread.

Me and my friend were talking today, about our .40 S&W and the .45 ACP (I own one of each) He was telling me that a hit with the .45 in the center of mass, would stop a man 95% of the time. I think all stats like this have the potential to be grossly false. He said that 1 shot with the .45 would equal 2-3 .40 shots. I got the following information from Federal Ammunitions web sight. All Numbers are for Hydroshock ammo.

A 230 grain .45 ACP going at 890 fps = 404 Foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.
A 180 grain .40 S&W going at 1000 fps = 400 Foot pounds of energy at the Muzzle.

Assuming a shot in the same spot on Individuals of similar size, what difference will 4 foot pounds really make?

Steel1212 · 11-10-2006, 04:55 PM

If you want only facts then find some military, law enforcement types and ask them. Asking that here and your mainly going to get theory, and " I believes"

Anyway, in the end speed kills and I THINK the 40 and the .45 are similar in energy. Then end result is .05 bigger chunk of lead going down range.

Another thing, you compared a 230 grain .45 to a 180 grain .40. Compare, a 180 .45 to a 180 .40 and see what you get.

sloopy70 · 11-10-2006, 04:57 PM

Theres way too many variables for the Caliber argument... yes the .45 hits harder, but its not a DEFINATE man stopper, Read Combat Handguns Magazine... Massad Ayoob tells stories about bad Guys getting shot 10 or more times and still not stopping with a .45... he also tells stories of badguys getting shot with 1 .22 bullet and being put down... Theres too many variables, someone who's "enraged" or hopped up on drugs may keep coming at you after a whole magazine..... next time someone argues with you about ballistics, just tell them that its more effective to use "00 Buckshot at close range than to use just about anything else... I know for a FACT that 00 buckshot will make a dramatically different wound pattern than a .45 (evil smile)... So there ya go

Have a nice day...

**agalindo** · 11-10-2006, 05:46 PM

IMHO Two things make a small difference the bullet with the heavier mass has a better change of punching through tough muscle, bone or clothing because it will lose it's momentem slower. The larger diameter bullet will also have a better chance of cutting a major vessel and cause more bleeding. How much more of an advantage probably not much, barely measueable IMHO.

BBunin · 11-10-2006, 06:30 PM

Like anything else;
Location, location, location!
WHERE you hit them counts 10x what bullet it is.

And THAT is a fact!

abstraction_leader · 11-10-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBunin

Like anything else;
Location, location, location!
WHERE you hit them counts 10x what bullet it is.

And THAT is a fact!

Remember: only hits count!

Steel1212 · 11-10-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBunin

Like anything else;
Location, location, location!
WHERE you hit them counts 10x what bullet it is.

And THAT is a fact!

Two to the chest, one to the head, guaranteed to make him/her/zombie dead!

robinsre · 11-10-2006, 07:42 PM

400 Foot Pounds is easily enough energy to penetrate the ribcage or the skull. As has been said before, where you hit them is more important than what you hit them with. Get the gun you can afford/will practice with more.

rtparso · 11-10-2006, 07:49 PM

+1 on too many factors. If a sewing neadle penitrates the heart in the right place it will stop the heart. The top stopping power is the object that hits a target organ (heart or head). Next is wound cavity. I have seen someone cut the jugular vein on a pig and watched pig run live (screaming) fror seveal minuets. Shock is a likely killer in gun shots and people have died of shock seeing blood. But that guy last summer got stuck in the rocks in Utah and cut off his arm and then hiked out. Carry what you can shoot well and hit the target. Real question can you (me included) hold it together when put in the situation. I have seen mentaly stong people just stand there when presented with danger and I have seen people you would never have thought of a heros step up and take action when needed.
Need to add any one who says I will act like this or that does not know what they are talking about. That is unless they have been in that same situation a number of times and even then you realy never know.

**beardman2** · 11-10-2006, 09:13 PM

IMHO impact energy is the only real way to compare without lots of shooting of living things. Assuming the same bullets the higher energy should win the day. But again there are so many veriables it would be fairly imposible to test them side by side.

11-10-2006, 04:44 PM	#1
Boeydafunk XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Boulder City Posts: 259	Just the facts please! I think the reason that caliber questions come up, is because everyone gives there opinions and very few facts are presented. Please only post actual facts on this thread. Me and my friend were talking today, about our .40 S&W and the .45 ACP (I own one of each) He was telling me that a hit with the .45 in the center of mass, would stop a man 95% of the time. I think all stats like this have the potential to be grossly false. He said that 1 shot with the .45 would equal 2-3 .40 shots. I got the following information from Federal Ammunitions web sight. All Numbers are for Hydroshock ammo. A 230 grain .45 ACP going at 890 fps = 404 Foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. A 180 grain .40 S&W going at 1000 fps = 400 Foot pounds of energy at the Muzzle. Assuming a shot in the same spot on Individuals of similar size, what difference will 4 foot pounds really make?

11-10-2006, 04:55 PM	#2
Steel1212 XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 566	If you want only facts then find some military, law enforcement types and ask them. Asking that here and your mainly going to get theory, and " I believes" Anyway, in the end speed kills and I THINK the 40 and the .45 are similar in energy. Then end result is .05 bigger chunk of lead going down range. Another thing, you compared a 230 grain .45 to a 180 grain .40. Compare, a 180 .45 to a 180 .40 and see what you get. __________________ Corey Estill USPSA: A57351 IDPA: A26629 "Master or bust!!"

11-10-2006, 06:30 PM	#5
BBunin XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 2,029	Like anything else; Location, location, location! WHERE you hit them counts 10x what bullet it is. And THAT is a fact! __________________ . When seconds count, the police are only five minutes away. ------------------------------------ MY PARTIAL TOY LIST XD-9 5" (Production) XD-40 5" (Limited10) SA 1911 Loaded (Limited10/SingleStack) STI Spartan (Limited10/SingleStack) Kahr PM9 (CCW) KT P3AT (CCW) Remington 11-87 (Trap) Remington 870 Express (HD/Trap) Misc Rifles for fun and hunting

11-10-2006, 07:42 PM	#8
robinsre XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 2,637	400 Foot Pounds is easily enough energy to penetrate the ribcage or the skull. As has been said before, where you hit them is more important than what you hit them with. Get the gun you can afford/will practice with more. __________________ Johnny was a chemist's son but Johnny is no more, what Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4. Support bacteria, it's the only culture some people will ever have.' "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend, it's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

11-10-2006, 07:49 PM	#9
rtparso XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 622	+1 on too many factors. If a sewing neadle penitrates the heart in the right place it will stop the heart. The top stopping power is the object that hits a target organ (heart or head). Next is wound cavity. I have seen someone cut the jugular vein on a pig and watched pig run live (screaming) fror seveal minuets. Shock is a likely killer in gun shots and people have died of shock seeing blood. But that guy last summer got stuck in the rocks in Utah and cut off his arm and then hiked out. Carry what you can shoot well and hit the target. Real question can you (me included) hold it together when put in the situation. I have seen mentaly stong people just stand there when presented with danger and I have seen people you would never have thought of a heros step up and take action when needed. Need to add any one who says I will act like this or that does not know what they are talking about. That is unless they have been in that same situation a number of times and even then you realy never know. Last edited by rtparso : 11-10-2006 at 07:52 PM.

11-10-2006, 04:57 PM	#3
sloopy70 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Southwest Louisiana Posts: 1,093	Theres way too many variables for the Caliber argument... yes the .45 hits harder, but its not a DEFINATE man stopper, Read Combat Handguns Magazine... Massad Ayoob tells stories about bad Guys getting shot 10 or more times and still not stopping with a .45... he also tells stories of badguys getting shot with 1 .22 bullet and being put down... Theres too many variables, someone who's "enraged" or hopped up on drugs may keep coming at you after a whole magazine..... next time someone argues with you about ballistics, just tell them that its more effective to use "00 Buckshot at close range than to use just about anything else... I know for a FACT that 00 buckshot will make a dramatically different wound pattern than a .45 (evil smile)... So there ya go Have a nice day...

11-10-2006, 09:13 PM	#10
beardman2 XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,948	IMHO impact energy is the only real way to compare without lots of shooting of living things. Assuming the same bullets the higher energy should win the day. But again there are so many veriables it would be fairly imposible to test them side by side. __________________ - He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine I will not be involved with the dreams of angry men. Founding Documents Freedom isn't free: http://www.anysoldier.com

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