XD Talk

STELLA · 03-15-2012, 11:39 AM

His first minute is so full of fail it's not even funny. " not very powerful, not very reliable, not very accurate, and not easy too shoot compared to a long gun" He must be using some jennings throw away handguns or something. When you can have a handgun round with a KO factor of 65,basically the power of a .458 winchester rifle round in your hands your right it's not powerful at all. Anything mechanical can fail whether its a handgun, rifle, or shotgun. Accuracy for the the distances for which a handgun is used is on par with a rifle unless you compare shooting at 600 yards. And as far as being not easy to shoot, what a crock. Handguns are so easy to shoot a child can do it.

mbquimby · 03-15-2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STELLA

His first minute is so full of fail it's not even funny. " not very powerful, not very reliable, not very accurate, and not easy too shoot compared to a long gun" He must be using some jennings throw away handguns or something. When you can have a handgun round with a KO factor of 65,basically the power of a .458 winchester rifle round in your hands your right it's not powerful at all. Anything mechanical can fail whether its a handgun, rifle, or shotgun. Accuracy for the the distances for which a handgun is used is on par with a rifle unless you compare shooting at 600 yards. And as far as being not easy to shoot, what a crock. Handguns are so easy to shoot a child can do it.

Before you get too deep into what you're stepping in, Google him. He's what you might call an expert's expert. Also, keep in mind that he is speaking in relative terms. Compared to fighting rifles, everything he stated about pistols is accurate.... which was the comparison he was making.

STELLA · 03-15-2012, 01:18 PM

I'm not stepping in anything, just pointing out some items that don't jive well. Relatively speaking here of course, how can one say a fighting rifle is more reliable than a handgun, both are a mechanical item and both will fail. How is a rifle easier to shoot compared to a handgun? How is either one more accurate than the other for its intended use? How is a handgun less powerful than a rifle for the intended use?

Even in his description of the attacking Moros in the philippines he said they were soaking up hits from rifle shots and kept coming. So comparing the shots from the handguns and rifle neither seemed to do well in what one could call an impromptu side by side comparison.

Would I only want a handgun in an battlefield situation, no I would want a rifle. Would I want a rifle in a carjacking situation, no I would want a handgun.

Every firearm is just a tool, one must use the proper tool for the given job.

**agalindo** · 03-15-2012, 01:33 PM

STELLA, KO factor is a farce there's no such thing.
Service pistol rounds are very weak compared to center fire rifle rounds. They are so weak they would never be considered adequate for deer sized game by anybody that knows hunting. White tail deer are smaller than the average human. The only wounding mechanism service pistol rounds is punching holes, rifle rounds can cause wounding via temp cavity.

Your not going to sit there an say that you can hit a target just as easy with a pistol than you can with a rifle are you? Even at 10 yards a rifle is much easier to shoot accurately.

Boris · 03-15-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agalindo

STELLA, KO factor is a farce there's no such thing.
Service pistol rounds are very weak compared to center fire rifle rounds. They are so weak they would never be considered adequate for deer sized game by anybody that knows hunting. White tail deer are smaller than the average human. The only wounding mechanism service pistol rounds is punching holes, rifle rounds can cause wounding via temp cavity.

Your not going to sit there an say that you can hit a target just as easy with a pistol than you can with a rifle are you? Even at 10 yards a rifle is much easier to shoot accurately.

Been hunting deer for a couple decades with service caliber handguns, and I am a hunter. Thats like telling an archer a 30# long bow is not adequate for deer hunting. When native Americans did it for a good minute with stone broadheads. I know hunters who own the shortest super ulta magnums who can not harvest as many deer as I do. Does his way too short super ulta magnum make hime a more adequate hunter than I then? I say no. Hunting is all in the skill of the individual, not their choice of weapon. Same can be said for choice of handgun caliber. Having put all kinds of projectiles from all three of them into deer. I will tell you with similar projectiles it dont make a lick of difference in how any of them kill. They all work the same as the others.

**agalindo** · 03-15-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris

Been hunting deer for a couple decades with service caliber handguns, and I am a hunter. Thats like telling an archer a 30# long bow is not adequate for deer hunting. When native Americans did it for a good minute with stone broadheads. I know hunters who own the shortest super ulta magnums who can not harvest as many deer as I do. Does his way too short super ulta magnum make hime a more adequate hunter than I then? I say no. Hunting is all in the skill of the individual, not their choice of weapon. Same can be said for choice of handgun caliber. Having put all kinds of projectiles from all three of them into deer. I will tell you with similar projectiles it dont make a lick of difference in how any of them kill. They all work the same as the others.

Yea borris I've heard it before. You're one of the exceptions.
Around my area the smallest pistol caliber a hunter would ethically consider taking dear with would be .357mag. Nobody is talking about bows, broad heads cause much more damage than a service pistol caliber.

fredj338 · 03-15-2012, 01:54 PM

Yeah I agree & disagree. He loses a bit of cred when he says pistols are "inaccurate & unreliable", maybe for him or in comparison to a rifle or SG. How much accuracy do you need @ engagement distances? Inside 25yds, pistols are more than accurate for SD purposes. Focus, you can make a headshot at that distance. Yes it's easier w/ a long gun, but capapble w/ a pistol. Yes you must practice & train.
As to caliber debate, sure, you are poking holes. The idea though is to poke th largest holes possible. Expanding bullets give you that, larger expanding bullets give you more. Pretty fricking simple. So either poke a few larger holes or a lot of smaller holes to reduce your attackers ability to fight. Ability is always more important than equip. but if yo uhave the ability, why not hedge your bet w/ "better" equip, if even only marginally better.

**agalindo** · 03-15-2012, 02:02 PM

Fred I kinda agree with you.

1. I'm guessing the guy was trying to say semi-auto pistols are not as reliable as a bolt rifle. Yea, maybe.

2. Pistols are harder to shoot accurately than rifles, not pistol are inaccurate.

He chose his words wrong. That was my take on the vid.

fredj338 · 03-15-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agalindo

Fred I kinda agree with you.

1. I'm guessing the guy was trying to say semi-auto pistols are not as reliable as a bolt rifle. Yea, maybe.

2. Pistols are harder to shoot accurately than rifles, not pistol are inaccurate.

He chose his words wrong. That was my take on the vid.

You are probably right, but then I would have to see him shoot. Handgun accuracy can be extreme in good hands. I hear guys all the time say handguns are not accurate. A head shot @ 10yds is just as easily delivered from rifle or handgun if both are practiced. The rifle is always going to be more devistating than a rifle but as noted, no one carries a rifle 24-7.
If all I have is a handgun, why handicap myself further by carrying even less power as in say a 380 or worse, 25 or 32acp? One can get a 9mm to be quite serviceable, but it does really need quality JHP IMHO to make those bigger holes. The larger the caliber the less it relies on expansion to achieve those bigger holes.

Then it always goes back to mag cap. Well in some states, like Kalif, I am stuck w/ 10rds, so mag cap pretty much goes bye, bye. Then it comes down to what you shoot best. That will always be the deciding factor IMO. If you can shoot bigger, go for it, if not, stay w/ 9mm, you'll be more effective.

Boris · 03-15-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredj338

Ability is always more important than equip. but if yo uhave the ability, why not hedge your bet w/ "better" equip, if even only marginally better.

And that right there is why i carry a 45 99% of the time.

Agalindo, i know what you are saying and it is 100 percent true. However i cant think (and it dont mean I am "right" by any means) of a more ethical method of finding a spot i can get a 15 yard or less shot with 20 being my absolute max I will take. Them tastey critters got every chance in the world to not get shot by me. I wont take a shot I know I cant make and thats the ethical problem I got with some hunters, taking shots they cant make. If hunters stay within their left and right limits and the means to harvest is legal I say have at it. Same goes for choice of caliber and skills for legal carry......