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Self Defense Ammo

This is a discussion on Self Defense Ammo within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; Originally Posted by Shocknyou "mallninja wanabes" is harsh but to give an account against something other than watermelons or other fruit check out the expansition ...


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Old 02-23-2012, 02:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocknyou View Post
"mallninja wanabes" is harsh but to give an account against something other than watermelons or other fruit check out the expansition of frangible rounds through wood and yes it is unfortunately a video from "boobtube" Glock 37 .45 GAP Extreme Shock Ammo - YouTube

if i get the chance one of these days maybe i can video tape what happens when shooting a pig or a roast or some other means of actual tissue

Cuda is absolutely correct that there is no best fit for everyone. Just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for anyone else

the best advice is to buy several different types and test them out then pick the best one for you
How about "the ballistically ignorant wet their pants over it", then--as the only folks who tend to get excited about it don't really get how bullets need to work in order to stop an attacker.

Exxxtreme shock is in the same gimmick round category as glaser, et al.

As Agalindo said above--they underpenetrate--badly. See my comments in earlier posts why this is a bad thing, not a good thing.

Not only that, but if these rounds were even vaguely close to half as effective as claimed--why aren't and major agencies using them. Hell, supposedly Glaasers and "Air Freedom" rounds were designed to be used by Sky Marshals...but they use Gold Dots. Why is that? Maybe because they know that these gimmick rounds aren't going to stop someone rapidly...

In short, it's a grave disservice to suggest that someone trust their lives to these overpriced, overhyped, underperforming gimmick rounds.
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #42
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Critical Defense is awful as Agalindo and Cuda said. I've shot a lot of different self defence rounds at the range to get a feel for them. Granted, I have a .40, but I pack my mags alternating between Speer Gold Dot and Winchester PDX1 in 180gr. I prefer slow and heavy rounds vs fast and light, as the faster rounds tend to expend most of their energy on impact, and underpenetrate as a result.

Frangible rounds are garbage. They are designed to underpenetrate thus reducing collateral damage. A well placed shot with a quality, well designed JHP will expand, penetrate enough to hit the vitals, and in the event it over penetrates, it will not have a whole lot of energy left to do much more damage. The only time collateral damage is a problem is if you are using an fmj.

The "best" jhps are the bonded ones. Why? Well think of what agalindo and Cuda have said. The older designs like the Black Talon, Hydroshock, TAP, XTP, etc, had a flaw. Upon impact, they had (have) a tendency to shed their copper jacket, so only the lead portion of the bullet was left, which defeats the purpose of the jhp. As copper is harder than lead, the copper jacket helped the bullet penetrate better.

Bonded bullets, the jacket and lead core are chemically bonded so as not to separate. Thus, you have a superior bullet design. Try HST, PDX1, Corbon DPX, Speer Gold Dot, Golden Saber, etc.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:26 PM   #43
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much like all products different brands different effectiveness
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:09 PM   #44
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"ballistically ignorant" wow what a f_cking idiot. did it ever occur to you i like the ammo for the very reasons you don't, i don't want to kill anyone; we don't live in the movies, people aren't fearless and don't come relentlessly after you, whether you admit it or not fear dictates your actions its human nature, what is key is how you react to fear, 99.9% of people lose all of their fine motor skills and won't be able to defend themselves in the manner you imagine that you can, knowing how to use your gross motor skills and place the attacker in a state of fear so that you are on a level playing field is key. i don't expect someone as small minded and obviously mentally inept as you to understand any of this
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:38 PM   #45
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You shouldn't carry a weapon. A gun is a deadly weapon and is used as such. If you don't want to kill some one you should consider pepper spray or some other less than lethal weapon. Guns are not to be used to "wing" the bad guys that only happens in the movies. once you pull a gun you have escalated the encounter to the use of deadly force do you better be prepared to do so.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:48 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Shocknyou View Post
"ballistically ignorant" wow what a f_cking idiot. did it ever occur to you i like the ammo for the very reasons you don't, i don't want to kill anyone; we don't live in the movies, people aren't fearless and don't come relentlessly after you, whether you admit it or not fear dictates your actions its human nature, what is key is how you react to fear, 99.9% of people lose all of their fine motor skills and won't be able to defend themselves in the manner you imagine that you can, knowing how to use your gross motor skills and place the attacker in a state of fear so that you are on a level playing field is key. i don't expect someone as small minded and obviously mentally inept as you to understand any of this
It has nothing to do with killing its about stopping an attacker any means necessary. When adrenaline is high a person may not even realize they are shot. You need to either destroy the nervous system or cause bleed out. You will only get that with a good penetrating round. Remember 80 percent of people survive handgun rounds. You are at a disadvantage using a pistol already. It makes no sense to shoot to wound that is more movie nonsense than a relentless attacker.

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Old 02-23-2012, 09:51 PM   #47
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Yeah use a crappy round that wont kill somebody. Then when they sue your retarded ass and take all you have we will laugh when you come on here crying. This isn't the movies and you are right, we need every advantage we can get. If I have to draw I fully plan on killing what ever is threatening me or my family. Douche bag.

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Old 02-23-2012, 10:15 PM   #48
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actually, i'd rather the bg turn and run if I draw, but if they don't and I have to shoot, then I want to stop them, if that means killing them, so be it, but I'd much prefer them run away first, for two reason, one, no more danger, two, I wouldn't have had to kill someone
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:32 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Shocknyou View Post
"ballistically ignorant" wow what a f_cking idiot. did it ever occur to you i like the ammo for the very reasons you don't, i don't want to kill anyone; we don't live in the movies, people aren't fearless and don't come relentlessly after you, whether you admit it or not fear dictates your actions its human nature, what is key is how you react to fear, 99.9% of people lose all of their fine motor skills and won't be able to defend themselves in the manner you imagine that you can, knowing how to use your gross motor skills and place the attacker in a state of fear so that you are on a level playing field is key. i don't expect someone as small minded and obviously mentally inept as you to understand any of this
Like Agalindo said, you should sell your gun if you don't want to kill anyone. Guns are tools, meant to kill. Nothing less. You should maybe look into pepper spray, or a stun gun.

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Old 02-23-2012, 11:46 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocknyou View Post
"ballistically ignorant" wow what a f_cking idiot. did it ever occur to you i like the ammo for the very reasons you don't, i don't want to kill anyone; we don't live in the movies, people aren't fearless and don't come relentlessly after you, whether you admit it or not fear dictates your actions its human nature, what is key is how you react to fear, 99.9% of people lose all of their fine motor skills and won't be able to defend themselves in the manner you imagine that you can, knowing how to use your gross motor skills and place the attacker in a state of fear so that you are on a level playing field is key. i don't expect someone as small minded and obviously mentally inept as you to understand any of this
There was a good read going around a week or two ago about the mentality a robber has before victimizing you. It was written by a former LEO. Basically, it said the criminal is desensitized to robbing people. In fact on multiple occasions I have seen/read reports that such events are an adrenaline rush for them. So I think your statement that "fear" alone is a driving force is inaccurate, they are not afraid of you. Also whoever said that the attacker would sue the sh*t out of you is right. There is a lot more to a self defense shooting that simply pulling the trigger....I do not want to argue but the OP was asking about rounds for SD not who is ballistically ignorant or a wannabe mallninja...so to the OP I suggest Federal HST, good round. Someone correct me if I am wrong but what do FBI ballistics tests state 12" penetration max?
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