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Self Defense Ammo

This is a discussion on Self Defense Ammo within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; Originally Posted by agalindo lmao!...


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Old 02-22-2012, 10:33 PM   #31
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lmao!
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:33 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by xdmfan4life View Post
Lets see. I have 3 mags for my xdm 9mm 3.8, one is filled with the tap, one is filled with CD ( why are people against the critical defense? Fill me in on this, I thought the rubber tip was a good thing...? Is it the same as the critical duty that just came out?) and one is filled with the SXT 147 gr. My wife has a G19 with 3 mags, hers are filled with Hydra shock, then SXTs, then some hornady custom (xtp). My xdm 3.8 45acp is filled with the 230 gr tap+p, both mags.

I do want some of the hst though.
Critical Defense is a gimmick load. It underpenetrates, which likely means you will have to shoot more to stop the threat; if you shoot more, the more likely it is that you'll miss...and misses are more dangerous to folks downrange than the overpenetration that CD is supposed to be designed to prevent. I also highly dislike how Hornady came out and said that CD was for "civiians" (cops are civilians too, you know) that "don't need" the same performance as a LEO...and that's a load of horse feces and a half.

Also, it is not the same thing as the yet unproven and/or independently verified Critical Duty. Considering the way that Hornady marketed CDef as the best. round. EVAR. and are doing the exact same thing with CDuty...I'll wait until someone not affiliated with Hornady shows that it does what it's claimed. Even then--Hornady will likely package their 20 round boxes at the same price that you can find a 50 round box of HST, Ranger-T, Gold Dot...and I don't think that CDuty will outperform any of them ehough to justify the extra cost.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by xdmfan4life View Post
Lets see. I have 3 mags for my xdm 9mm 3.8, one is filled with the tap, one is filled with CD ( why are people against the critical defense? Fill me in on this, I thought the rubber tip was a good thing...? Is it the same as the critical duty that just came out?) and one is filled with the SXT 147 gr. My wife has a G19 with 3 mags, hers are filled with Hydra shock, then SXTs, then some hornady custom (xtp). My xdm 3.8 45acp is filled with the 230 gr tap+p, both mags.

I do want some of the hst though.
Aside from cudda's under penetration statement CD does not expand 100% of the time. I've seen tests where it's failed to expand.
Hydrashock is older technology and while it still better than CD, the newer rounds like Gold Dot, HST, Ranger T,PDX will expand more reliably than Hydras.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:14 AM   #34
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Loving this thread, subscribed.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:45 AM   #35
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Winchester Supreme Elite 124gr PDX FTW
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:49 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
Agalindo, it looks like it's amateur night...

OK, first off, what Agalindo said is spot on--frangible rounds are next to useless. They tend to blow right through a wall and still be dangerous on the other side, but also tend to underpenetrate people to the point that they don't stop them fast. Mallninja wannabes tend to wet their pants over them, because they makes them watermelonz blow up real good on UToob. Against anything in the animal kingdom, however...worthless.

Second off--there is no "Best". That bears repeating, so let me say it again:

There is no "Best".

Why? Because what works best for me, in my gun, when I shoot it, may not be what works best in your gun when you shoot it...and not all guns/shooters are the same.

That being said, though...not all loads are created equal.

So: I suggest that folks with questions like this read these links:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

They list several loads that all have proven themselves to be excellent choices...and also explains the why as to them being excellent choices.

So, choose one of the loads listed (you may find that some are considerably more expensive and/or harder to find than others--but they all will perform more or less the same). Buy a box or two, and take it to the range. Load up your mags, and let fly. Fire at least one entire magazine out of every magazine you plan on using for defense. See if the load runs 100% reliably in your pistol in your hands, and see if you think it has acceptible control when rapid firing. If your pistol likes it, and you like it...why try something else? You've got something that you know works for you, instead of what some anonymous yahoo tells you in an internet forum. If it doesn't work..then start all over again.

I hope this actually helps you, instead of sombody just posting some bullet name that may or may not work in your gun.

ETA--Hornady Critcal Defects is one of those rounds that blowz up watermelonz real good on UToob. Avoid it.

"mallninja wanabes" is harsh but to give an account against something other than watermelons or other fruit check out the expansition of frangible rounds through wood and yes it is unfortunately a video from "boobtube"

if i get the chance one of these days maybe i can video tape what happens when shooting a pig or a roast or some other means of actual tissue

Cuda is absolutely correct that there is no best fit for everyone. Just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for anyone else

the best advice is to buy several different types and test them out then pick the best one for you
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:33 AM   #37
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Agalindo/ Cuda: Thank you for the information. I didn't know any of that. The vids that I saw, (non company vids) they expanded properly each time through jugs lined with denim and leather. I didn't think of the under penetration tho. Does that have anything to do with the light bullet they use? Or is it just a design flaw? I usually try to use only 124 gr +p, or 147 gr if I can, but I believe, (not sure, don't have the box any more) the Cdef. is 115 gr. Since they don't expand, then they aren't really any different then any other hollowpoint. Damn marketing gimmick.

Good info though. Atlest I will not spend 28 bucks on a box for my 45.
Thanks again.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:08 AM   #38
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Since we're on the Hornady CD bashing train, i'll throw my experience in. I've never bought any, but I did receive 20 rounds of 357 mag with a SP101 that I purchased. I have no idea how it expanded, but I can tell you this. The quality control was terrible. Some rounds felt like 38 +p, and some felt like full house 357's. When I inspected the cases afterwards, some looked normal, and some had primers so flat, that they were perfectly flush and smooth with the primer pocket.

Lucas
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:14 AM   #39
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That extreme crap video doesn't prove anything. In actual tests ES penetrates about 4" of calibrated gel the wound channel is not as impressive as it is on clay, water melons, or boxes full of cotton.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:06 PM   #40
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I've got mine loaded with Remington Golden Saber 147gr HPJ. They were very accurate and functioned perfectly in my tests. I was glad to see them on the list cuda recommended.
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