XD Talk

  • Home
  • Forum
  • Active Topics
  • Gallery
  • Social Groups
  • Search
  • Today's Posts
  • Mark Forums Read
  • Register
  • Advertise

AMMO Applications and Self Defense Effectiveness

This is a discussion on AMMO Applications and Self Defense Effectiveness within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; The Brownells site lists ammo by application (i.e., law enforcement, training, self defense, etc.). The implication is that certain ammo is better suited to a ...

Breadcrumb Image XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source! » Armory Talk » The Ammo Can » AMMO Applications and Self Defense Effectiveness

Reply
Old 02-17-2012, 09:04 AM   #1
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 68784
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
AMMO Applications and Self Defense Effectiveness

The Brownells site lists ammo by application (i.e., law enforcement, training, self defense, etc.). The implication is that certain ammo is better suited to a particular task. Perhaps based on cost. Perhaps based on stopping effectiveness. Perhaps based on accuracy. I'm wondering, for home defense needs, why wouldn't, or why would, a training type ammo be as effective as a law enforcement type ammo or, a self defense type ammo? What are the difference to be considered when evaluating these rounds for a given neede?
markjaey is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 02-17-2012, 09:14 AM   #2
XDTalk 5K Member
 
N.E. Tx.XD's Avatar
 
Member #: 49858
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Farmersville, TX.
Posts: 9,367
Welcome to the Forum from Texas!

Cudda66, Agalindo, and or Fred will be by here promptly. Our resident experts on the matter.
__________________
Be Quick or Be Dead.

"So...they say you have a monster? A curse upon this land?? I am ripper, tearer, slasher, gouger. I am the teeth in the darkness, the challenge in the night. Mine is strength, and lust and power. I am Beowulf!"- Anglo-Saxon Nowell Codex

μολὼν λαβέ
N.E. Tx.XD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #3
XDTalk 15K Member
 
agalindo's Avatar
 
Member #: 3721
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alpine Texas
Posts: 16,131
The big difference between range ammo and SD ammo is bullet construction. A bullet for range use just needs to be accurate there is no need for reliability, and expansion. SD ammo is designed from the ground up, to meet a set of requirements.

1. accuracy.
2. reliability
3. penetration.
4.expansion.
5 low flash.

The only reliable way to stop an attacker using a service pistol round is to hit the Central Nervous System (head,spine) this is not likely to happen, or by bleed out (damage major blood bearing organs and arteries.) A bullet that expands reliably and penetrates deep, will make a bigger and deeper (you must reach the vital organs at less than optimal angles) hole so it will cause more damage and stop an attacker faster. Quality HPs designed for SD will do this much much better than cheap HPs or FMJ. Quality SD ammo is ammo that is tested meets FBI protocol. It must penetrate a minimum of 12" of ballistics gel and expand, even after encountering, heavy clothing, wall board, sheet metal, car glass and plywood.
A FMJ because of it's rounded tip will make a smaller hole that it's caliber. A .45 cal bullet does not make an .45 cal hole in tissue more like .33 cal a 9mm fmj more like .22 cal hole. An expanded HP will make a much bigger hole because it's expanded and because it has a flat surface to cut and crush tissue.
Big holes damage more tissue and cause more wounding. The faster the bad guy stops the safer you are.
__________________
Quote:
My name is Mike Franks. I figure I got one more fight left inside me. You want it?
Mike Franks NCIS
Quote:
Battlestar Galactica Book Of Pythia
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Quote:
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. River Tam Serenity
agalindo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 09:28 AM   #4
XDTalk 10K Member
 
Cuda66's Avatar
 
Member #: 27123
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kandiyohi County, MN--land of fields and lakes.
Posts: 13,279
What Agalindo said.

I don't like how they split LE and SD rounds into different categories; while I haven't looked to see what the difference, is, almost any round that is geared towards LE carry and passes the FBI protocols would also be an excellent round for home or self defense.

Then again, I rather despise how some companies are trying to convince people that they should use a neutered round for these purposes, because they aren't law enforcement (do you hear me, Hornady and Federal?).

May I suggest some reading:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

and

Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

The first thread gives some good information on why we want to choose the rounds listed...the second has some of the same information, as well is a bt more updated on rounds that are available.
__________________
When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. - Sinclair Lewis


Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding it's way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge".--Isaac Asimov
Cuda66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 09:41 AM   #5
XDTalk 3K Member
 
Member #: 37120
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 3,570
+1 What agalindo said.

For SD, you want a round that RELIABLY penetrates deeply and expands widely. You need the most damage per round that you can get. There's a trade-off here. A round that expands widely may not penetrate as much due to the larger frontal area. LE agencies sometimes look for rounds that will penetrate hard objects like wood doors or auto glass. They may sacrifice expansion to get this result. LE agencies (if they supply the ammo) are also looking at cost. The absolute BEST round may not be the cheapest, so...

Any of your top rounds are good. Speer, Win., Corbon, etc. Study the different ballistics tables found all over the 'Net and go from there. Whatever ammo you choose, make sure it's 100% reliable in your gun! I'd shoot AT LEAST a couple of boxes of it before I'd carry it.
__________________
μολν λαβέ
Keltyke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 10:07 AM   #6
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 68784
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
Thanks for the welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N.E. Tx.XD View Post
Welcome to the Forum from Texas!

Cudda66, Agalindo, and or Fred will be by here promptly. Our resident experts on the matter.
markjaey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 10:11 AM   #7
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 68784
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
Thanks for the detail, Agalindo. I've done some homework but guidance, from the community, is best. Had no idea that a .45 FMJ leave a hole smaller than .45.

I'm running a .45 XDm. I'll run through a few boxes to see what works best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
The big difference between range ammo and SD ammo is bullet construction. A bullet for range use just needs to be accurate there is no need for reliability, and expansion. SD ammo is designed from the ground up, to meet a set of requirements.

1. accuracy.
2. reliability
3. penetration.
4.expansion.
5 low flash.

The only reliable way to stop an attacker using a service pistol round is to hit the Central Nervous System (head,spine) this is not likely to happen, or by bleed out (damage major blood bearing organs and arteries.) A bullet that expands reliably and penetrates deep, will make a bigger and deeper (you must reach the vital organs at less than optimal angles) hole so it will cause more damage and stop an attacker faster. Quality HPs designed for SD will do this much much better than cheap HPs or FMJ. Quality SD ammo is ammo that is tested meets FBI protocol. It must penetrate a minimum of 12" of ballistics gel and expand, even after encountering, heavy clothing, wall board, sheet metal, car glass and plywood.
A FMJ because of it's rounded tip will make a smaller hole that it's caliber. A .45 cal bullet does not make an .45 cal hole in tissue more like .33 cal a 9mm fmj more like .22 cal hole. An expanded HP will make a much bigger hole because it's expanded and because it has a flat surface to cut and crush tissue.
Big holes damage more tissue and cause more wounding. The faster the bad guy stops the safer you are.
markjaey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 10:12 AM   #8
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 68784
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
Good reading recommendations, Cuda66 (nice ride BTW. One of my elementary school teachers had one and I've always liked the car).

I'll use them as resources as I make my decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
What Agalindo said.

I don't like how they split LE and SD rounds into different categories; while I haven't looked to see what the difference, is, almost any round that is geared towards LE carry and passes the FBI protocols would also be an excellent round for home or self defense.

Then again, I rather despise how some companies are trying to convince people that they should use a neutered round for these purposes, because they aren't law enforcement (do you hear me, Hornady and Federal?).

May I suggest some reading:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

and

Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

The first thread gives some good information on why we want to choose the rounds listed...the second has some of the same information, as well is a bt more updated on rounds that are available.
markjaey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 10:14 AM   #9
XDTalk 500 Member
 
Member #: 65457
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 595
I just looked at brownells site, and i'm not sure wth they got going on with all those different categories. Tactical category? What defines a bullet as tactical? At any rate, the suggestions given above are all good.

FMJ's = deep penetration, and smaller hole
JHP's = less penetration, and bigger hole
Quality JHP's = good penetration, and big hole

It's not rocket science. For SD pick a quality JHP, that YOU can shoot accurately, and is reliable in YOUR gun. All the rest is just snake oil and marketing fluff.

Lucas
lharrell79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 10:16 AM   #10
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 68784
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
Good guidance, Keltyke. Most of my shooting will be on a range. I have a couple of friends in LE and will get info on what rounds they shoot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
+1 What agalindo said.

For SD, you want a round that RELIABLY penetrates deeply and expands widely. You need the most damage per round that you can get. There's a trade-off here. A round that expands widely may not penetrate as much due to the larger frontal area. LE agencies sometimes look for rounds that will penetrate hard objects like wood doors or auto glass. They may sacrifice expansion to get this result. LE agencies (if they supply the ammo) are also looking at cost. The absolute BEST round may not be the cheapest, so...

Any of your top rounds are good. Speer, Win., Corbon, etc. Study the different ballistics tables found all over the 'Net and go from there. Whatever ammo you choose, make sure it's 100% reliable in your gun! I'd shoot AT LEAST a couple of boxes of it before I'd carry it.
markjaey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source! » Armory Talk » The Ammo Can

ammo, ammunition, bullets, defense


Search tags for this page

243 ammo for self defense

,
243 for self defense
,

best .45 defense ammo

,

best personal defense ammo

,

best self defense ammo

,

difference between home defense ammo

,

difference between home defense and range ammo

,
difference between range ammo and home defense ammo
,
differences between home defence and range bullets
,
different types of self defense 45 acp ammo
,
effectiveness of different ammo
,

range ammo for self defense

,

types of self defense ammo

,
what is the best personal defense ammo
,

what is the difference in ammo

,
what's the difference between personal defense and tactical ammo?
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On