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Does the 223 tumble and fragment like the 5.56 round?

This is a discussion on Does the 223 tumble and fragment like the 5.56 round? within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; People say they are the same... But I can find no data on the 223 tumbling and fragmenting. They do move at the same rate ...

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Old 01-14-2012, 05:56 AM   #1
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Does the 223 tumble and fragment like the 5.56 round?

People say they are the same...


But I can find no data on the 223 tumbling and fragmenting.


They do move at the same rate of speed...

The Hyperstactic shock alone has been proven to kill animals when the bullet hits the soft watery body and forces all that blood into the skull. If the animal does not die it suffers massive brain damage and is impaired.




this is the best vid I have seen on 223 damage. It left a huge exit wound and I am happy with my choice in 223.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:27 AM   #2
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They ae the same. The difference is in tolerances for chambering really from what i gather, .223 has a lower tolerance on casing size and the 5.56 chambering not as tight a tolerance because its generaly in combat type guns vs being in precision guns like .223

I personaly agree with people also in saying the 5.56 is a hotter round as i can tell when i shoot 5.56 out of my ar it kicks a tiny bit more than when i shoot rounds labeled .223

So to be safe, stick with .223 with a gun marked .223 but if its marked 5.56 it doesnt matter


Edit: also keep in mind, in general 5.56 is usually a fmj and .223 especialy varmit and hunting loads are some form of hollow point or balistic tip(which is kinda the same as a hp). And that can be the tumbling u hear about in 5.56 vs a hp in .223 its not really cause the round is so different as much as one is usually a hp and other usually a fmj
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:39 AM   #3
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This might help explain the differences. I know some Mini 14's will shoot booth but not all Mini's will.
.223 Remington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magog View Post
People say they are the same...


But I can find no data on the 223 tumbling and fragmenting.


They do move at the same rate of speed...

The Hyperstactic shock alone has been proven to kill animals when the bullet hits the soft watery body and forces all that blood into the skull. If the animal does not die it suffers massive brain damage and is impaired.


223 stopping power demonstration - YouTube


this is the best vid I have seen on 223 damage. It left a huge exit wound and I am happy with my choice in 223.
Actually, it's hydrostatic shock, and it hasn't been proven to do anything.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
Actually, it's hydrostatic shock, and it hasn't been proven to do anything.
Actually, scientific/medical evidence/history has proven it to be quite damaging. It has been proven to fracture bones, destroy organs, cause brain hemorraging, etc. Just depends on the projectile characteristics (size, speed, energy, motion through medium, etc.) and where it hits/travels. Organs that are more liquid filled will experience greater damage than more dense organs if the projectile characteristics are enough to cause the damage. What seems to a common rule of thumb is that a projectile must at least have 500 ft-lb of force.

Last edited by cz75luver; 01-15-2012 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Correcting statement.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cz75luver View Post
Actually, scientific/medical evidence/history has proven it to be quite damaging. It has been proven to fracture bones, destroy organs, cause brain hemorraging, etc. Just depends on the projectile characteristics (size, speed, energy, motion through medium, etc.) and where it hits/travels. Organs that are more liquid/air filled will experience greater damage than more dense organs if the projectile characteristics are enough to cause the damage. What seems to a common rule of thumb is that a projectile must at least have 500 ft-lb of force.
You're confusing temporary cavity and hydrostatic shock.

And it has nothing to do with energy; it's more a function of velocity.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:25 AM   #7
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Here are a couple of links related:

Hydrostatic shock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0803.3051

The second link is to a pdf from a couple of PhDs from West Point and is really good.


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Old 01-15-2012, 09:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
You're confusing temporary cavity and hydrostatic shock.

And it has nothing to do with energy; it's more a function of velocity.
The PhDs I linked above would disagree. BTW, velocity with no mass has no direct physical effect. You're body is constantly struck by particles with negligible mass travelling at a high velocity (i.e. - radiation) but you don't feel them. Energy and/or force is what a person would typically feel. When it comes to penetrating trauma in the form of a bullet, kinetic energy (Ke = (1/2)mv^2) needs to be considered.

You're confusing temporary cavity with hydrostatic shock as I never related the two. They are different. The amount of temporary cavity that remains as a permanent cavity is related to the elasticity of the tissue. A classic example is the swinging of a bat. Swing a bat at a garbage can results in a dent or cavity. Do the same to foam and the foam will bounce back. Do it to the abdomen of a person and the body will spring back, but depending on the force of the impact, location, etc., there can be internal damage to include bone fractures, hemorraging, etc. Bullets, though, are a form of penetrating trauma rather than blunt trauma. I'd refer to the effects of bullets to the PhD's.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:42 AM   #9
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Courtney's been debunked. for cryin' out loud, he still thinks the fabricated "Strasbourg Tests" are valid...

And Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source.

Temp cavity is the result of tissue being stretched by a high-velocity bullet's passage--the same pressure waves you'll see in air. It can damage organs, break bones, etc...if the bullet is moving fast enough. Take a real heavy, slow-moving bullet...there is minimal temp cavity, regardless of it's energy.

Hydrostatic shock is the mythical buildup of magical pressure waves in the blood that "shock" the brain into shutting down...
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:59 AM   #10
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For the OP, this might be what you're looking for:

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