When you calculate your reloading cost...

[Cranium]

Originally Posted by Boris

Everything else you said is fine and dandy. This part I left is flat out wrong brother! In 1990 a single box of 9x19mm costed $9.99 at the best. Meaning there was alot more out there MORE expensive. Components are two to three times more expensive than they were in 1990 at this time right now. A box of 9x19mm can be bought for $8.00 a box of 50 today. You dont even have to apply math to them numbers to realize thats $2.00 cheaper than it was 20 years ago. Ammo right now just on a dollar comparison is CHEAPER today than it was 20 years ago, forget inflation and cost of raw materials and the fact we all make more. Even minimum wage is twice what it was back then. Yes you save even today by reloading, but the margin is far FAR less than when I did load my own. That right there is the hold up for me.

50 115 grain 9mm projectiles is $7.50 before shipping. I just checked midwayusa. I buy 50 loaded rounds for $0.50 more...... No flippin way after I add powder and a primer the few pennies are worth my time. Even on a high volume super expensive progressive. How many rounds would I have to shoot to get my setup cost back at $0.50 per 50 rounds, or a penny per round even if I found primers and powder for free. WOW! That just made me even more confident in not reloading at this time. Unreal!! I havent looked at component prices in a long time. You really gotta be a hobbiest to load at them component prices.......

Here is the link brother..

Remington Bullets 9mm (355 Diameter) 115 Grain Full Metal Jacket - MidwayUSA

WOW jut wow is all I have to say.

Have fun rolling your own guys while I spend more time on the range...

I think you need to educate yourself about the costs of reloading more.

I like how you choose to use about the cheapest ammo out there for your side of the argument and then compare it to high priced bullets for your argument against reloading. Boy, that really sways my opinion.

State facts and be willing to back them up. I could quote the cheapest bullets out there along with the cheapest powder and primers and then compare it to Hornady HP XTP ammo at over $1/round and make my argument look better, but I won't. We can discuss personal experiences and preferences for buying ammo and reloading but that is for our particular circumstance and may not be applicable for everyone.

Let's get to facts now from my reloading bench and data I record to provide you some more accurate reloading numbers that are also repeatable for everyone based on current internet prices:
I always bought PMC 115 gr 9mm and use that as my personal baseline. If I had a source of $8.50/bx of ammo delivered, I would have bought more of that before starting to reload but I don't. You've been able to buy cheaper stuff and that is fine. I did like the way the PMC shot and kept with it for about 3000 rounds. I pick up brass at my range and have another friend that gives it to me. I have over 5000 cases and the number slowly rises. I should never have to buy cases for my 9mm.

I have 4 powder types on hand and my costs are spread over the multiple types and vary very little. I use Winchester primers and bought 5k at once. I am getting into more casting but still buy quite a few bullets and my numbers reflect the prices of my most recent purchase of hollow points from Montana Gold. My numbers also include consumables like: corn cob media, brass polish, and bullet lube (for casting).

My average powder cost per pound (including hazmat fees) was $18.68 and my average primer cost per thousand (including hazmat fees) was $30.10.

• $0.23 / rd ($11.50 / bx) for new PMC ammo
• $0.13 / rd ($6.50 / bx) for reloading ammo with bullets
• $0.08 / rd ($4.00 / bx) for reloaded ammo and buying lead for casting
• $0.05 / rd ($2.50 / bx) for reloaded ammo and scrounging wheel weights for casting

I've only been reloading for about 6 weeks and have saved $280.56 over shooting the same number of rounds in PMC ammo. It will be a while before the savings pay for the equipment (10 months at the going rate) but in the end, I'm paying much less, as well as creating a very reliable, predictable, accurate, and flexible system for shooting ammo that works for me and is tuned for my guns.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Boris

Everything else you said is fine and dandy. This part I left is flat out wrong brother! In 1990 a single box of 9x19mm costed $9.99 at the best. Meaning there was alot more out there MORE expensive. Components are two to three times more expensive than they were in 1990 at this time right now. A box of 9x19mm can be bought for $8.00 a box of 50 today. You dont even have to apply math to them numbers to realize thats $2.00 cheaper than it was 20 years ago. Ammo right now just on a dollar comparison is CHEAPER today than it was 20 years ago, forget inflation and cost of raw materials and the fact we all make more. Even minimum wage is twice what it was back then. Yes you save even today by reloading, but the margin is far FAR less than when I did load my own. That right there is the hold up for me.

50 115 grain 9mm projectiles is $7.50 before shipping. I just checked midwayusa. I buy 50 loaded rounds for $0.50 more...... No flippin way after I add powder and a primer the few pennies are worth my time. Even on a high volume super expensive progressive. How many rounds would I have to shoot to get my setup cost back at $0.50 per 50 rounds, or a penny per round even if I found primers and powder for free. WOW! That just made me even more confident in not reloading at this time. Unreal!! I havent looked at component prices in a long time. You really gotta be a hobbiest to load at them component prices.......

Here is the link brother..

Remington Bullets 9mm (355 Diameter) 115 Grain Full Metal Jacket - MidwayUSA

WOW jut wow is all I have to say.

Have fun rolling your own guys while I spend more time on the range...

Again Boris, you are cherry picking. For a guy that can find ultra cheap, obscure foreign ammo cheap, you didn't look very hard for components. You have one brand of ammo that sells for that $$, some imported stuff I have never even seen for sale anywhere. Good for you, but it isn't achieveable for all shooters. Yeah, back in the day you could buy cheap 308 & 9mm imported too, not today for most locals. Midway, I never buy stuff from Midway. Their over priced shipping alone & multiple HM fees for powder & primer keeps me from ordering there. PrecisionDelta is but one site for cheaper bullets, there are others if you look. We won't even talk about the free ones I get casting my own, well almost free. Costs me a few pennies for elec & bullet lube, but easily less than 1c each. You have seen posted data on actual cost for 9mm, about 10c/round in FMJ, 8c/rd for commercial lead.
Again, said it before, based on where most guys buy ammo, Wally or gunshows, your paying about $19/100 at best. I can reload 115grFMJ for right @ $10/100, $90/1000 savings & I don't have to drive anywhere to get my components or ammo, no sales tax & free shipping on bullet. It's not for everyone, but to deny you can't save siginificant money even reloading 9mm just doesn't pencil out. Reloading isn't for everyone, that's fine, but it is quite a savings to shooters that shoot a lot or shoot something larger than 9mm, but even 9mm, yeah, I'll take 45-50% savings over common 9mm factory any day. Best I can find for 1000 9mm, about $166+ shipping (say another $34=$200). I can still beat that by 8c-9c/rd.
http://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-9mm-amm...fmjwolfwpa-500
Precision Delta - Competition Ammunition
Roze Distribution: 9MM (.355) Diameter) - 115 GR FMJ, 5,000 & Up
X-Treme 9mm 115gr RN Plated Bullets 1000 Count
https://secure.mooseweb.com/montanag.../pricelist.tpl

[SnowBlaZeR2]

You guys are ridiculous. Shoot what you want and everyone should do the same.

I still get a kick out of the fact that some think reloading parallels being a good shooter.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by SnowBlaZeR2

You guys are ridiculous. Shoot what you want and everyone should do the same.

I still get a kick out of the fact that some think reloading parallels being a good shooter.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

Only because you don't pay for your ammo! Seriously, how does one become a good shooter w/o actually shooting? Shooting requires an ammo consumption, that costs money. So you better be rich, sponsored or work for the govt if you want to pull the trigger enough to be a really good shooter. Dryfire untill hell freezes over or play CS, unless you send rounds downrange, you'll be average at best.
I don't really care what anyone shoots, it just bugs me when people distort or ignore facts. It's why our govt/country is in such termoil. No one wants to face facts, everyone wants to spin it.

[robinsre]

Nope, It's a hobby and I enjoy doing it so the time spent on it is a net gain rather than a net loss for me.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by CdnInAz

I think I see why you don't understand where yes indeed we still do save today 20 years after you gave upyes, sure you see Midway at $7.50/ 50 = 15 cents per bullet plus shipping. But those of us who reload today don't buy such small quantities to get the gains we have written about earlier in this thread

here is a link you might like to see, showing the same 9mm 115 FMJ as you referenced (which is what I like for my 9s):
Montana Gold price list - just one example there are others but I like these - scroll down to find 9mm 115 FMJ
$298/4000 = 7.45 cents per round, shipping included. I just got a case from my distributor, for a little less.

So right there, a hair less than half of what you are referencing.

Could go cheaper with cast, but I like FMJs in my 9s, and this also gives you an exact unclouded comparison

We do same for other components - just today I bought 5000 primers for $130 - not 1000 for $35 in stores.

So, can you see the cost comparison getting better with bulk? You were quoting the very best prices for ammo in bulk. Gotta compare that to supplies in bulk.

yep, I agree - wow, just wow

When I reloaded my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Not load inferior ammo. I tried cheap projectiles and QC was poor and the final product was nowhere near as good as cheap factory ammo. I always used Rem and Winchester 115s in my loads. I see no need to make ammo with lesser products since my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Something you can not do with substandard products. Its like saying a highpoint 45 is as good as a SA 1911.Why spend all that money on a 1911 when you can buy a highoint?

I already discounted the my ammo is cheaper than factory, then quote prices with bottom of the barrel components. Quality loads atleast as good as cheap factory ammo can not be had with a lesser component.

Dont report you duplicate factory spec ammo with inferior components, it just can not happen.

If your goal is inferior ammo then yes you can shoot substandard ammo pretty cheap. Factory ammo is better today than it was 20 years ago. you will at the least need a good projectile to duplicate factory spec ammo.

Knock yourself out shooting subfactory standard ammo folks.......

[Cannibul]

Originally Posted by Boris

When I reloaded my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Not load inferior ammo. I tried cheap projectiles and QC was poor and the final product was nowhere near as good as cheap factory ammo. I always used Rem and Winchester 115s in my loads. I see no need to make ammo with lesser products since my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Something you can not do with substandard products. Its like saying a highpoint 45 is as good as a SA 1911.Why spend all that money on a 1911 when you can buy a highoint?

I already discounted the my ammo is cheaper than factory, then quote prices with bottom of the barrel components. Quality loads atleast as good as cheap factory ammo can not be had with a lesser component.

Dont report you duplicate factory spec ammo with inferior components, it just can not happen.

If your goal is inferior ammo then yes you can shoot substandard ammo pretty cheap. Factory ammo is better today than it was 20 years ago. you will at the least need a good projectile to duplicate factory spec ammo.

Knock yourself out shooting subfactory standard ammo folks.......

I'm about to label you a troll.

I can reload .45 ACP rounds for less than half of factory cost that are superior to factory ammo in accuracy.

[psychocabbage]

Before this gets way out of hand, I want to know how accuraccy is measured.


The only way I know to judge accuraccy is to point the gun at a target, hold it spot on, and press the trigger to the back without moving it. Using this method, we would also have to not move for the following shots as well.

I use WWB only. Mainly because its the cheapest readily available ammo around. I have been able to put 3 holes all touching with 5 rounds. I know others can put 2 holes with 5 rounds and the 2 holes are overlapping. Using store bought ammo. Is that accurate?

Is there a set distance? Do we need a benchrest? Do we need a chrono to measure the avg speed of the rounds? I seriously would like to know how this is judged because there are days when I am just off my game and feel like I cant hit the broadside of a barn. I am hitting my targets but my groups arent as tight as I want them. Is that me and my mind games or do I blame the round?

Please reply seriously and realize I am just trying to learn more.

[CdnInAz]

Originally Posted by Boris

When I reloaded my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Not load inferior ammo. I tried cheap projectiles and QC was poor and the final product was nowhere near as good as cheap factory ammo. I always used Rem and Winchester 115s in my loads. I see no need to make ammo with lesser products since my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Something you can not do with substandard products. Its like saying a highpoint 45 is as good as a SA 1911.Why spend all that money on a 1911 when you can buy a highoint?

I already discounted the my ammo is cheaper than factory, then quote prices with bottom of the barrel components. Quality loads atleast as good as cheap factory ammo can not be had with a lesser component.

Dont report you duplicate factory spec ammo with inferior components, it just can not happen.

If your goal is inferior ammo then yes you can shoot substandard ammo pretty cheap. Factory ammo is better today than it was 20 years ago. you will at the least need a good projectile to duplicate factory spec ammo.

Knock yourself out shooting subfactory standard ammo folks.......

inferior components? substandard? All strong words, so you must have some basis of facts. Source please? I assume for such strong statements that you have personal experience with the components that I am using as disclosed for you in my last post above. Or if not your own experience, please cite a reference so that I can learn. I come on this forum to learn and share - so I will listen to facts. I gave you a link to Montana Gold - just what did you find inferior about their 9mm 115 FMJ? As I wrote last post there are others, Fred has cited others like Delta, I tried some others but these are my preferred. I'm into my third case of 4000, from the first 8000 not one problem, not one. I use Winchester primers - again never had an issue. I'm sure an upstanding guy like you would not call this stuff inferior and substandard with no basis of fact. Please share your experiences. Convince me and I'll change - but for now I know my reloads are as good or better than factory, at less than half of the cost.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Boris

When I reloaded my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Not load inferior ammo. I tried cheap projectiles and QC was poor and the final product was nowhere near as good as cheap factory ammo. I always used Rem and Winchester 115s in my loads. I see no need to make ammo with lesser products since my goal was to duplicate factory ammo. Something you can not do with substandard products. Its like saying a highpoint 45 is as good as a SA 1911.Why spend all that money on a 1911 when you can buy a highoint?

I already discounted the my ammo is cheaper than factory, then quote prices with bottom of the barrel components. Quality loads atleast as good as cheap factory ammo can not be had with a lesser component.

Dont report you duplicate factory spec ammo with inferior components, it just can not happen.

If your goal is inferior ammo then yes you can shoot substandard ammo pretty cheap. Factory ammo is better today than it was 20 years ago. you will at the least need a good projectile to duplicate factory spec ammo.

Knock yourself out shooting subfactory standard ammo folks.......

Bori, you don;t like to reload, I get that, but please do not misrepresent facts. Fact WOlf or Tula is NOT good factory ammo, that is what most people buy. I can make the identical Hornady factory ammo for 1/2 price using once fired brass, fact. SO if that is the goal, easily & cheaply done. You can't have it both ways talking quality handlaods & then quote one gunshow whatever foreign ammo as your quality ammo. I am sure I can produce a fare superior handload using cheaper components, than you can buy already made. It's jsut s specious argument just to be argumentative. No problem, I enjoy a good debate, but spinning it to fit so you sound correct just doesn't fly. Throwing a bunch of speculation out doesn't support facts. My "cheap" handloads are more accurate than Wolf, Blaser or WWB, I am sure more than cheap foreign gunshow brand as well, all for a significant savings for a volumn shooter. The bullets WWB use are not high grade, neither are the ones in Blaser or Wolf. Fact. I woucan makle a more accurate load than any of that substandard ammo using a free lead bullet so how is that "inferior".
Again, I don't care what anyone shoots, just stop spinning facts. I don't care if I am the only reloader on the planet, but stop spinning facts. Be honest, don;t cherry pick, it just makes it too easy to show you are spinning. If you have a source for $18/100 ammo, post it, I am sure the non handloaders would like to see it.