XD Talk

  • Home
  • Forum
  • Active Topics
  • Gallery
  • Social Groups
  • Search
  • Today's Posts
  • Mark Forums Read
  • Register
  • Advertise

.40 S&W - 165 gr. vs. 180 gr.

This is a discussion on .40 S&W - 165 gr. vs. 180 gr. within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; Hi everyone...I'm a newbie on the website and really appreciate you taking the time to read my post. If it is a topic that has ...


Reply
Old 04-18-2011, 03:29 PM   #1
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 57161
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7
Question .40 S&W - 165 gr. vs. 180 gr.

Hi everyone...I'm a newbie on the website and really appreciate you taking the time to read my post. If it is a topic that has already been covered, I apologize and would appreciate any links to relevant information.

I'm just wondering what people's experiences are when changing from 165 grain to 180 grain loads for .40 S&W.

I've had my XDM (4.5" barrel) for about 8 months now, and maybe have about 1,000 rounds through it. I've always shot 165 grain Winchester "white box" ammo from walmart.

I've never really been too pleased with my accuracy, but I realize that it's something I need to continue to practice. However, I once read somewhere that someone else was having issues shooting 165 gr. through their XD or XDM, and they experienced an improvement when they changed to 180 grain.

So, just for sh*ts and giggles, I decided to try a box of 180s, and I swear that I was more consistent with better groupings. With the 165s, I tended to shoot low at 20', and maybe would have 20% of my shots be outside of a well-defined group ("fliers" I like to call them).

When I switched over to 180s, I seemed much more consistent, with a better centered grouping, and maybe only 5% of my shots that I would consider "fliers".

FYI - I was switching back and forth between 165 and 180 so the number of shots I had taken, or fatigue, etc. wouldn't be a factor.

Anyone else experience this or something else? I do find it a little hard to believe because at 20' you wouldn't think there would be much variance. Also worth mentioning is that the 165s tended to shoot lower than the 180s.

Anyone else experience this or something similar?
CoolHandXDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 04-18-2011, 03:44 PM   #2
XDTalk 15K Member
 
agalindo's Avatar
 
Member #: 3721
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alpine Texas
Posts: 16,131
Looks like the extra muzzle blast from the 165gr makes you flinch more than the 180gr. Get some snap caps and intermix them in the mag when shooting. When you hit a snap cap you'll see what your going. It's not the ammo it's the shooter.
__________________
Quote:
My name is Mike Franks. I figure I got one more fight left inside me. You want it?
Mike Franks NCIS
Quote:
Battlestar Galactica Book Of Pythia
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Quote:
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. River Tam Serenity
agalindo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 04:05 PM   #3
XDTalk 5K Member
 
Member #: 38362
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,482
Psychosomatic response?


There shouldn't be much if any difference with that weight change if (IF!!) the rounds are all loaded precisely. WWB isn't bad, but it isn't top shelf stuff either. You may want to try some other brands of ammo too.

Rolling in a snap cap randomly is always a good idea. Will show your level of flinch and will give you practice doing clearance drills. Nothing worse in my mind that a person hitting a dud during a high stress situation and then standing there like a statue because they have no reflexive reaction automatically clearing the weapon.
__________________
Ever since the tragic boating accident, my only weapons are;

Tactical black cat - sleeps in doorways



A right unused become a privilege for the ruling class.

john_bud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 04:27 PM   #4
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 57161
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
Looks like the extra muzzle blast from the 165gr makes you flinch more than the 180gr. Get some snap caps and intermix them in the mag when shooting. When you hit a snap cap you'll see what your going. It's not the ammo it's the shooter.
This is a good idea, and I probably should do this. My question is, since I usually am at the range by myself, will this work since I'd be loading my own mags and could probably guess when a snap cap would be coming up?
CoolHandXDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 04:29 PM   #5
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 57161
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by john_bud View Post
Psychosomatic response?


There shouldn't be much if any difference with that weight change if (IF!!) the rounds are all loaded precisely. WWB isn't bad, but it isn't top shelf stuff either. You may want to try some other brands of ammo too.

Rolling in a snap cap randomly is always a good idea. Will show your level of flinch and will give you practice doing clearance drills. Nothing worse in my mind that a person hitting a dud during a high stress situation and then standing there like a statue because they have no reflexive reaction automatically clearing the weapon.
Yeah I know WWB isn't top shelf, but I have a hard time trying to convince myself to spend even more money. Any ammo suggestions that you prefer?
CoolHandXDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 04:45 PM   #6
nyj
XDTalk 100 Member
 
Member #: 51846
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Austin, ya'll
Posts: 128
I shoot WWB out of my subcompact just fine, but like you, I'm more accurate with the 180gr. Gold Dot 180gr is what I carry.
nyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 11:08 PM   #7
XDTalk Member
 
mtnshikaku's Avatar
 
Member #: 54939
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolHandXDM View Post
This is a good idea, and I probably should do this. My question is, since I usually am at the range by myself, will this work since I'd be loading my own mags and could probably guess when a snap cap would be coming up?

This is a great idea for all the reasons listed, clearing misfires to observing your trigger control issues. Just load a cap or two in different orders in a few different magazines (1st mag, cap at 3rd and 9th rnd, mag #2, 5th and 11th, mag#3 . . . . - - - by the time you've loaded a random magazine into your pistol, you won't know when the cap will be chambered. Works for me.

To piggy back on Agalindo's comment about muzzle flash - - - try loading a couple 165's followed by a couple 180's, and pay attention to the felt recoil and noise level of the two different rounds - notice anything different? Likely there's a difference, and as he alluded, you're subconsciously noticing it and then anticipating it, which is affecting your shots.

You mentioned your groupings were better centered with the heavier rounds - this is very likely because you were able to execute better trigger control for some reason. I bet you experienced what I did firing some 180 grn rounds . . .

You asked about cheaper ammo - I bought some 180 grain Tula ammo a while back to give them a try in my XDm 40 4.5", mostly because they were heavier, I was curious to see what they would do, I'd read mixed reviews of them, and best of all they were about $4 per 100 cheaper than the 165 grn FMJFN WWB at my local Walmart. They (Tulas) do have significantly less felt recoil, and are significantly quieter. Based on that, you'd think I would shoot them better. (It may be why you shot your 180s better.) I surely can shoot them longer and with less effort and fatigue than the snappier, faster, louder 165 WWBs, and I do like that. But in my gun and in a supported stance at 15 yards or off my rest at 25 yards, the Tulas are not as consistent as the WWB's and result in a looser group with more fliers. So nope, I don't actually hit with them better. But to be fair to the Tulas, I can hit with them good enough for what I want to do with them. And I can enjoy shooting more of them at a time because of the reduced felt recoil.

The pros - - 10% cheaper than WWB; much easier on the felt recoil and sound; shoots decent enough groups for fun range plinking; every round went bang, punched a hole thru paper , or knocked over a steel plate; and less packaging waste (go green).

A few cons - - the round is a much dirtier round, 100 Tulas crapped up things more than 500 WWBs (but that just means a lil extra cleaning, no big deal IMO); the steel brass isn't as conducive to reloading (or trading in to reload); the bimetal jacketing - steel/copper - isn't allowed at some indoor ranges (no prob for me, I live in the country and shoot on my own range); I had 3 FTFeeds from one 50 round box of Tulas.

Bottom line - if you don't mind a little extra cleaning, you're doing shorter range shooting without a need for high precision, and you want to get some practice on your clearing drills, buy some Tulas and save some money and your joints!

I do like the WWBs, they may not be top end, but they do just fine in my gun, and I can get very satisfactory groups centered on the bull with them.

Well . . . . . . Most days!

Good luck to you, welcome to the forum and keep working on your trigger control and dryfiring!
__________________
Handle stress like a dog - if you can't eat it or play with it, then just pee on it and walk away.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).

----------------------------------
The focused mind can penetrate stone.
mtnshikaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 11:23 PM   #8
XDTalk 1K Member
 
NewBlackDak's Avatar
 
Member #: 44924
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,654
I'm the same way. My groups are better with the factory loads @180 GR. However, I started reloading again in January. I bought 2500 135 GR bullets, and have worked up a ~950 fps load that is super soft shooting.

With those I can shoot a ragged hole.
NewBlackDak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2011, 03:46 AM   #9
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 56772
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 16
Try looking around at the store buy you that sell "cheap" ammo. I just checked my ammo locker and I have some of those 165 winchesters but I also have two boxes of 180 Winchester. I have to agree and disagree about the response to the snap of the 165 over 180 I have shot many rounds of many calibers and have grown accustomed to everything from small firecracker pops to S&W 500 my shooting style is fine but I do notice that with the cheaper ammo ($14-$18 out by me) you do get some variation in how the round performs. When I shoot hand-loaded competition match rounds I never see any fliers. You just have to remember 2 things 1. There is a reason it's cheap ammo. And 2. That statistically speaking most SD shootings take place over a distance of about 3 feet so at that distance it won't matter if you have fliers or not.
slowjoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2011, 08:15 AM   #10
XDTalk Newbie
 
Member #: 57161
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyj View Post
I shoot WWB out of my subcompact just fine, but like you, I'm more accurate with the 180gr. Gold Dot 180gr is what I carry.
Hmm...that makes me think there may be something to this 165 vs. 180 accuracy thing, but I know it still must boil down to my shooting technique mostly.
CoolHandXDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source! » Armory Talk » The Ammo Can

165 grain, 180 grain, 40 s&w, ammo, xdm


Search tags for this page
.40 165 vs 180
,
165 gr vs 180 gr
,
165 gr vs 180 gr 40 sw
,
165 grain vs 180 grain
,
165 grain vs 180 grain in a .40 bullet
,
165 or 180 grain 40 s&w
,
165 vs 180 gr .40 s&w
,
165 vs 180 grain
,

180 grain 40 s&w

,
180 grain vs 165
,
180 grain vs 165 grain
,
180 vs 165 grain
,
180gr vs 165gr .40
,
40 s&w 165 gr vs 180 gr
,
40 s&w 165 vs 180
,
difference between 165 grain and 180 grain
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/173825-40-s-w-165-gr-vs-180-gr.html
Posted By For Type Date
.40 S&W - 165 gr. vs. 180 gr. - XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source! This thread Refback 06-01-2013 02:10 AM
180 grain vs 165 grain 40sw This thread Refback 02-24-2013 11:07 PM
Gr 180 This thread Refback 11-06-2012 09:52 PM