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.223 Green tip questions.

This is a discussion on .223 Green tip questions. within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; No the green tips are designed to penetrate light armor not to cause maximum tissue disruption. Why handicap yourself with military fmj bullets? For LE ...


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Old 03-31-2011, 08:33 AM   #11
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No the green tips are designed to penetrate light armor not to cause maximum tissue disruption. Why handicap yourself with military fmj bullets?

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For LE Patrol use, where there is a high incidence of potential engagements around or involving vehicles, ammunition that is able to effectively penetrate intermediate barriers, particularly vehicle glass is critical. The best LE 5.56 mm/.223 loads for intermediate barrier penetration using 1/9 and faster twist barrels are the 5.56 mm Federal 62 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (TBBC) bonded JSP (XM556FBIT3) and 5.56 mm Winchester 64 gr solid base bonded JSP (Q3313/RA556B) developed for the FBI, along with the outstanding new Black Hills 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX loading. Other acceptable 5.56 mm loadings for 1/9 twist barrels include the Speer 55 and 62 gr Gold Dot JSP's; the Federal 5.56 mm 62 gr Mk318 Mod0 (T556TNB1) is also a potential option. Note that these are all true 5.56 mm loads that require a real milspec 5.56 mm chamber, not a SAAMI .223 chamber--be sure to check with an appropriate gauge or reamer. Most other acceptable LE barrier blind loadings are at .223 pressures, including the .223 55 & 62 gr Federal bonded JSP Tactical loads (LE223T1 & LE223T3), along with loads using Nosler 60 gr Partition JSP, Remington 62 gr bonded JSP, .223 Federal 55 gr TSX (T223S), and the .223 Speer 55 & 64 gr Gold Dot JSP's (and identically constructed Federal 62 gr Fusion JSP). The Swift 75 gr Scirocco bonded PT is also good choice, but usually requires a 1/7 twist. Note that the Barnes all copper TSX bullets are great projectiles and offer good penetration through barriers, however, when first hitting a laminated automobile windshield intermediate barrier, most TSX bullets exhibit less expansion than bonded JSP’s, as the Barnes jacket either collapses at the nose, the jacket "petals" fold back against the core, or the "petals" are torn off; this results in a caliber size projectile configured a lot like a full wadcutter, leading to deep penetration. If running 1/12 twist barrels, stick with the BH 50 gr TSX, Fed 55 gr TBBC, Speer 55 gr Gold Dot, or Fed 55 gr TSX. NONE of the fragmenting 5.56 mm OTM bullets, even the heavy 75 - 100 gr loads, offer acceptable performance through automobile windshield glass. Contrary to what many believe, M193 & M855 FMJ are not very good against glass; the best military 5.56 mm load against glass is 52 gr M995 AP, followed by the 62 gr Mk318 Mod0 OTM and 70 gr Optimal "brown tip" OTM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:14 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
Why handicap yourself with military fmj bullets?
Because they are one heck of a lot cheaper to stock up on. I know there are better bullet designs out there, but it is hard to justify twice the price (or more) of the 55r FMJ. The green tips can be had for about 10% more. That I can justify springing for when doing a bulk purchase. I do intend to get some better bullets too, but the bulk of the cache will by M193 or M855. That is why I was specifically asking between those two....

If you have a source for cheap JSPs, I am all ears.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:19 AM   #13
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Reload.
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:09 PM   #14
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How would this round fair against game. I.e deer?
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ruaerikoholic View Post
How would this round fair against game. I.e deer?
It'd be illegal in most states, since it's not an expanding round.
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ruaerikoholic View Post
How would this round fair against game. I.e deer?
Not well.

Like I said before, unless your deer signed the Hague Accords of 1899 and 1907 and are using light armor, there are much better non-military rounds. I posted the list above.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
No the green tips are designed to penetrate light armor not to cause maximum tissue disruption. Why handicap yourself with military fmj bullets?

The dual core green tips will penetrate light armor like any other non AP round out there. M855 ball is designed for fragmentation. I am floored you do not know this. You know an unreal amount about pistol rounds but are not very right about this one.

Read up a little bit on M855 ball. Velocity above 2700fps will cause fragmentation due to a projectile that weighs 62 grains, but is the length of a 71 grain projectile with the most dense and heaviest portion of the projectile being in the rear. the more dense and heavier rear portion of the core will try to get up front and the front and rear cores will seperate. Velocity below 2700 means the round just yaws, it still does more damage than just punching right through. Fragmentation range for a M4 is 90 meters, M16 has a fragmentation range of 200 meters.

I think you fellas have M855 and M955 ball confused with one another. M955 ball has a black tip though. It has a Tungsten core that is very pointed and penetrates armor way better than a 5.56 round should.


For clarification folks. M855 is anti personnel and has a green tip. M955 ball is armor piercing and has a BLACK tip.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:51 AM   #18
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The green tip m855 has, like you said a dual core which includes a steel penetrator for penetrating light armor steel. If you'll read the OP he's asking about the green tip.
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:13 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
The green tip m855 has, like you said a dual core which includes a steel penetrator for penetrating light armor steel. If you'll read the OP he's asking about the green tip.

The tiny chunk of steel in M855 is not designed to penetrate armor of anykind. If you look at it the steel "penetrator" has a flat front to it. The solid Tungsten core in M955 has a very pointed, almost sharp tip.

The term "penetrator" core is made to comply with the law of war. The actual intention of M855 is fragmentation.

I have but two deployments, but got enough use with M855 and M955 that I can tell you M855 is the last thing you want in your magazine if you need to shoot through a lightly armored target, like a car. M855 will breakup completely if shot through a radiator, wont even harm an engine. Guess what part of a car you shoot at when is hell bent on getting where you are? A quick switch to M955 meant stopping cars much much faster when 5.56 was used.

M855 does some crazy things when it hits a fleshy target and the projectile fragments.

The term "penetrator" looks less evil than "fragmentor" core, its real design purpose....
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:19 PM   #20
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it may not be a real AP round, but you better not load it into a pistol.
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