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.40 Cal home defense ammo

This is a discussion on .40 Cal home defense ammo within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; Originally Posted by Cuda66 You can shatter concrete with a sledgehammer--is that fatal to the person swinging the hammer? Tell Agalindo that...I am on the ...


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Old 06-23-2010, 10:22 PM   #31
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You can shatter concrete with a sledgehammer--is that fatal to the person swinging the hammer?
Tell Agalindo that...I am on the same page as you. read what I quoted.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:28 PM   #32
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I am no expert but I think your logic is grossly flawed. Should you apply that to rifles like 50 BMG which can shatter concrete walls...the shooter must die instantly if your analogy is accurate.
Then somebody needs to invent recoil springs, reciprocating slides and barrels.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:31 PM   #33
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I've read the FBI study and I've read many of Fackler and MacPherson's journal articles, Cuda. I've never disputed their emperical data on automatic involuntary incapacitation.

Poink88 is right, though. This logic that the shooter should experience the same effect as the target is ludicrous. Firearms are DESIGNED to dissipate the felt recoil to the shooter and spread it out over a large area.

Why do light bolt-actions kick like a mule even with buttpad? I guarantee, if you replace a buttstock on a short barreled rifle with a blunt point (for the sake of argument), you'll be pretty stunned if not injured by the resulting force.

If you get shot, and you're not stunned. You're one of those adrenaline-amped PCP case studies. Cuda, I hope I don't have to prove it, ever. But I have been stunned by a softball returned straight to my side. And let's just say it gave me a moment of pause. lol.

F=d(mv)dt is pretty immutable. And combined with just a little common (perhaps not) sense, and it gets pretty plausible.

Maybe not, and Cuda and agalindo are just armor-vest wearing Rambo men who feel nothing unless it rips open a hole in their torso.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:38 PM   #34
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^^^ perhaps you could then reread the definition I posted on stopping power
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:44 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by QBiN View Post
I've read the FBI study and I've read many of Fackler and MacPherson's journal articles, Cuda. I've never disputed their emperical data on automatic involuntary incapacitation.

Poink88 is right, though. This logic that the shooter should experience the same effect as the target is ludicrous. Firearms are DESIGNED to dissipate the felt recoil to the shooter and spread it out over a large area.

Why do light bolt-actions kick like a mule even with buttpad? I guarantee, if you replace a buttstock on a short barreled rifle with a blunt point (for the sake of argument), you'll be pretty stunned if not injured by the resulting force.

If you get shot, and you're not stunned. You're one of those adrenaline-amped PCP case studies. Cuda, I hope I don't have to prove it, ever. But I have been stunned by a softball returned straight to my side. And let's just say it gave me a moment of pause. lol.

F=d(mv)dt is pretty immutable. And combined with just a little common (perhaps not) sense, and it gets pretty plausible.

Maybe not, and Cuda and agalindo are just armor-vest wearing Rambo men who feel nothing unless it rips open a hole in their torso.
Done calling names now? Did we get it all out of our system?

Goodness me...must've touched a nerve if you have to go into personal attacks. Nice...way to bring a touch of class to the discussion.

Hell's donkeys...if I ever get shot, I'm gonna fall down and cry like a baby, even if it's just a scratch...but I'm not enough of an optimist to assume anyone I'm facing is a wimp like me...which is why I want something that'll penetrate deep on the other guy, leave a wide, nasty wound, and bleed 'em out...fast.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:44 PM   #36
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So now it's name calling?

I'm no rambo and I don't wear BA. I do read and take the advice of people who's job it is to aid in the design and selection a pistol ammo for major law enforcement agencies and those that design body armor over somebody's unsupported opinion.

I have yet to see any data from you to back up your claims. Revolvers don't have recoil springs or any other method of reducing the "equal and opposite" reaction that the laws of physics say have to be followed. What better way to dissipate energy than to use it to expand a bullet. When a bullet hits a target (human) much of the energy from the bullet is used in expanding the bullet and then much is used in penetrating the object. The energy deposited into a target (from a pistol) will usually case a temprary cavity about 1 to 2 inches in diamter. The temporary cavity does not represent significant wounding because unlike 10% ballisitcs gel human tissue is very elastic.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:46 PM   #37
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^^^ perhaps you could then reread the definition I posted on stopping power
I did. I just was just more interested in the actual debate instead of pre-canned definitions pasted from Wikipedia.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:48 PM   #38
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Here's a another quote from a thread posted here a couple of days ago. It's about this guy that was jumped by several men he shot himself out of danger but not before being hit 3 times. Here's what he had to say about being hit with two bullets in the adomen. Musta been on PCP.

Quote:
"The first bullet caught me in the hand and spun me around," Lee said. "I reached for it. I started firing my gun. I must have gotten hit a couple more times, but I didn't feel it at the time. I just started firing back, and the guys ran off."
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:54 PM   #39
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Here's one about a guy hitting hit by a .45, unsuspectingly at point-blank range...

pistol-training.com How I Got Shot

One would think if your knockdown effect/kinetic energy incapacitation theory had any legs to it, this guy would've been thrown for a loop...but no, he was able to function just fine (for a bit)--(ETA--besides the use of his arm...which would make sense since the slug turned his elbow into a random box of tinkertoys).
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:55 PM   #40
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Done calling names now? Did we get it all out of our system?

Goodness me...must've touched a nerve if you have to go into personal attacks. Nice...way to bring a touch of class to the discussion.

Hell's donkeys...if I ever get shot, I'm gonna fall down and cry like a baby, even if it's just a scratch...but I'm not enough of an optimist to assume anyone I'm facing is a wimp like me...which is why I want something that'll penetrate deep on the other guy, leave a wide, nasty wound, and bleed 'em out...fast.
Who said I didn't want something that left the biggest wound possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
So now it's name calling?

I'm no rambo and I don't wear BA. I do read and take the advice of people who's job it is to aid in the design and selection a pistol ammo for major law enforcement agencies and those that design body armor over somebody's unsupported opinion.

I have yet to see any data from you to back up your claims. Revolvers don't have recoil springs or any other method of reducing the "equal and opposite" reaction that the laws of physics say have to be followed. What better way to dissipate energy than to use it to expand a bullet. When a bullet hits a target (human) much of the energy from the bullet is used in expanding the bullet and then much is used in penetrating the object. The energy deposited into a target (from a pistol) will usually case a temprary cavity about 1 to 2 inches in diamter. The temporary cavity does not represent significant wounding because unlike 10% ballisitcs gel human tissue is very elastic.
agalindo, the GRIP reduces the felt recoil, so do things like Hogue gel pads, etc. Unless you're striking the revolver round with a pin mounted to the front of your pointing finger; then the weight, size, and material of a revolver ALL go towards dissipating the felt recoil.

As far as calling you Rambo men, I wouldn've figured you'd both take it as a complement given the denial taking a round wouldn't stun you. Cuda, all in all, I really don't think we're disagreeing all that much. I never said wounding effects weren't important. It was more meant as sarcastic hyperbole for agalindo, for his assertions a round will defy physics, not impart any kinetic energy, and won't stun a target.
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