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Flat points

This is a discussion on Flat points within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; Recommended I ask this here after raising the issue in the 45 room. I roll my own ammo for my 45 tac. Because the Ranier ...


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Old 11-17-2009, 12:53 AM   #1
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Flat points

Recommended I ask this here after raising the issue in the 45 room.

I roll my own ammo for my 45 tac. Because the Ranier 200 grain flat points were the only thing available for awhile at Midway that's what I got. Shot about 50 of them the other day and one out of each mag wouldn't feed and it was always a few rounds into the mag.

Prior to this I have been shooting Hornady and Ranier HP's without even so much as a hint of a hiccup. Same with my mags ... all have worked great until this past weekend with the FP's.

It was recommended I polish the feed ramp. Is this above and beyond cleaning it well? Advice please!

BTW, my ammo is a 200 gr FP on 5.3 grains of Titegroup and an OAL of 1.225.

Any thoughts on the why's of the problem?
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:28 AM   #2
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They should feed fine. I use the same (I would surmise from your description) bullet from Missouri Bullet Co. and have never had any feeding issues. Unless they're semi wadcutters...which, for most XD's, are a problem. The bullets I use are pretty much standard 230 grain hardball profile, with the nose flattened, taking off 30 grains.

Are you having the same problem with any magazine used? Are they fairly clean?

Is the gun running dry or oiled?

I'd start with a thorough cleaning...both the gun and the mags then try again. My reloads do coke up the gun that's for sure. I typically run 500 rounds through it before I clean it. Or, when it gets so bad the chunks of carbon start sticking to my shooting glasses.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:00 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamboat View Post
Recommended I ask this here after raising the issue in the 45 room.

I roll my own ammo for my 45 tac. Because the Ranier 200 grain flat points were the only thing available for awhile at Midway that's what I got. Shot about 50 of them the other day and one out of each mag wouldn't feed and it was always a few rounds into the mag.

Prior to this I have been shooting Hornady and Ranier HP's without even so much as a hint of a hiccup. Same with my mags ... all have worked great until this past weekend with the FP's.

It was recommended I polish the feed ramp. Is this above and beyond cleaning it well? Advice please!

BTW, my ammo is a 200 gr FP on 5.3 grains of Titegroup and an OAL of 1.225.

Any thoughts on the why's of the problem?
Nosing down, up, I assume nosing down? You may have to play a bit w/ the OAL. They have a sim. profile to many JHP, like the XTP, some like slightly shorter OAL. I load the Berry's 200grFP, very sim. to an OAL of 1.20" & they feed flawlessly from my TAC. You are pushing your TG hard @ 5.3gr for plated so I would drop 0.1gr if you seat a bit deeper. I doubt polishing the feed ramp will improve anything, it' snot like the gun wasn't designed for JHP.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akroguy View Post

Are you having the same problem with any magazine used? Are they fairly clean?

Is the gun running dry or oiled?

I'd start with a thorough cleaning...both the gun and the mags then try again. My reloads do coke up the gun that's for sure. I typically run 500 rounds through it before I clean it. Or, when it gets so bad the chunks of carbon start sticking to my shooting glasses.
As I mentioned mags have never been an issue. I haven't cleaned them so perhaps I'll do that. I keep my weapon well lubricated but not dripping.

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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Nosing down, up, I assume nosing down? You may have to play a bit w/ the OAL. They have a sim. profile to many JHP, like the XTP, some like slightly shorter OAL. I load the Berry's 200grFP, very sim. to an OAL of 1.20" & they feed flawlessly from my TAC. You are pushing your TG hard @ 5.3gr for plated so I would drop 0.1gr if you seat a bit deeper. I doubt polishing the feed ramp will improve anything, it' snot like the gun wasn't designed for JHP.
Not sure what you mean by nosing up/down. I believe down would be accurate. Essentially the bullet seems to get slammed by the slide into the feed ramp. I'll take your advice and lighten up on the Titegroup and seat a tad deeper and see what happens.

Thanks guys for chimming in.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamboat View Post
Recommended I ask this here after raising the issue in the 45 room.

I roll my own ammo for my 45 tac. Because the Ranier 200 grain flat points were the only thing available for awhile at Midway that's what I got. Shot about 50 of them the other day and one out of each mag wouldn't feed and it was always a few rounds into the mag.

Prior to this I have been shooting Hornady and Ranier HP's without even so much as a hint of a hiccup. Same with my mags ... all have worked great until this past weekend with the FP's.

It was recommended I polish the feed ramp. Is this above and beyond cleaning it well? Advice please!

BTW, my ammo is a 200 gr FP on 5.3 grains of Titegroup and an OAL of 1.225.

Any thoughts on the why's of the problem?

if ur bullet is pointing to up (out of slide), shorten your OAL, if it is pointing down (toward mag) increase your OAL, remeber .45 ACP max length is 1.275 so you could go longer, do 50 long and 50 short and see what happens, shoot the short first as you can always push the longer one down more later if short works!
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:56 AM   #6
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Two thoughts on this. I looked on Midway and there is no bullet called Rainier Flat Point. So I'm not clear on whether you're shooting this bullet:

Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 45 Caliber (451 Diameter) 200 Grain Plated Flat Nose - MidwayUSA

Or this bullet:

Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 45 Caliber (451 Diameter) 200 Grain Plated Semi-Wadcutter - MidwayUSA

If it's the second, that's your problem. XD-45 has trouble with semi-wadcutters--the shoulder of the bullet tends to catch on the case of the fired round, jamming, which would explain why it never happens on the first round.

The second thought is whether OAL is changing as you're firing. I might fire a few and then see what the OAL is of the rounds that jam, compared to what you're loading them at.


Failing that, I'd wonder (as others have) if your rounds are just too long for that bullet profile. There's no reason they shouldn't feed, and I agree with Fred; I doubt polishing the feed ramp will matter, since your misfeeds are always in the same place in the mag.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdmp22 View Post
if ur bullet is pointing to up (out of slide), shorten your OAL, if it is pointing down (toward mag) increase your OAL, remeber .45 ACP max length is 1.275 so you could go longer, do 50 long and 50 short and see what happens, shoot the short first as you can always push the longer one down more later if short works!
The SAAMI OAL of 1.275" is max not optimal. Every bullet design likes a diff OAL. IF you load that 200gr Ranier to 1.275: it will likely not 3even chamber. The XD has a very short throat & truncated cone bullets will require slightly shorter OAL, 1.20"-1.22". Also check your mags, weak springs will allow the bullet to nose down.
Mongoose makes a good point, if the bullets are setting back on hitting the ramp, this will certainly play havoc w/ feeding. Check your case neck/mouth tension by pushing the nose of the loaded round into th bench. It shold NOT move. If it does, you need to make an adjustment to your belling die. Also, all brass is NOT the same. If you are loading mixed range brass, some will have thinner case mouths than others & this could be causing loss of neck/mouth tension.
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Last edited by fredj338; 11-18-2009 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose33 View Post
Two thoughts on this. I looked on Midway and there is no bullet called Rainier Flat Point. So I'm not clear on whether you're shooting this bullet:

Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 45 Caliber (451 Diameter) 200 Grain Plated Flat Nose - MidwayUSA
I'm shooting the bullets in the link. I've known for a while that SWC's aren't XD friendly. By the way, it says "200 gr FP" on the box so I assumed FP meant flat point. Not sure what else it could mean.
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
The SAAMI OAL of 1.275" is max not optimal. Every bullet design likes a diff OAL. IF you load that 200gr Ranier to 1.275: it will likely not 3even chamber. The XD has a very short throat & truncated cone bullets will require slightly shorter OAL, 1.20"-1.22". Also check your mags, weak springs will allow the bullet to nose down.
Mongoose makes a good point, if the bullets are setting back on hitting the ramp, this will certainly play havoc w/ feeding. Check your case neck/mouth tension by pushing the nose of the loaded round into th bench. It shold NOT move. If it does, you need to make an adjustment to your belling die. Also, all brass is NOT the same. If you are loading mixed range brass, some will have thinner case mouths than others & this could be causing loss of neck/mouth tension.
Thanks. Holy poop ... now I have a bunch of things to look at because I do have mixed brass. I am falring the case mouth just enough to allow the bullet to sit there. I am going to tighten the crimp just a smidge in addition to seating the bullet just a hair deeper. Right now my average OAL is right at 1.22 so I'll perhaps try a 1.20.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamboat View Post
Thanks. Holy poop ... now I have a bunch of things to look at because I do have mixed brass. I am falring the case mouth just enough to allow the bullet to sit there. I am going to tighten the crimp just a smidge in addition to seating the bullet just a hair deeper. Right now my average OAL is right at 1.22 so I'll perhaps try a 1.20.
How are you crimping? If it's a LFCD, too much crimp will actually cause loss of case mouth tension.
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