Factory Ammo - Amount of powder VS Bullet Weight - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

ExtremeShot · 01-11-2006, 10:48 AM

I was talking with a guy today that was comparing 9mm Winchester white box ammo. He was thinking that the powder amount increased as it went from 115 gr. bullets up to 147 gr. I was thinking the powder amount was probably the same and only the bullet weight increased??

Has anyone ever pulled white box ammo and done a comparison like this? ....I hate to have to go buy some ammo in order find out the answer...I usually load my own.

Thanks,
Darren

PS: Also, if the powder remained the same, would a larger (i.e. 147 gr.) bullet result in less felt recoil (versus say a 115 gr.)? Thx

mcb · 01-11-2006, 12:48 PM

That's a nasty can of worms. The amount of powder in a case is really not a good indication of the amount of chemical energy stored. Powders vary in density of the actual compound, and their bulk density depending on if the powder is made into various shaped grains (ie ball powder, flake powder, stick powders) Shape of the grains, density and chemical makeup of the grains and the fillers use greatly effect the total energy per unit mass and how fast the powder burns. This burn rate is very critical. As you go from light bullet to heavy bullets you generally need to reduce your burn rate to keep pressures down. But there are other factors, heavier bullet take up more room in the case. As case volume is reduce chamber pressure start to climb so you have to watch that. Bullet shape and contact area with the barrel effect pressure. There are many other thing you must consider.

So simply weighing the powder charge in two different cartridges does not really tell you to much. You can literally take X amount of powder A with bullet type Z and create a relative low velocity load, but if you substituted the same X about of another powder B with the same bullet type Z and you might end up blowing your gun up.

mcb

ExtremeShot · 01-11-2006, 01:11 PM

Thanks. I understand all this. I simply want to know if Winchester puts in more powder when they put in a heavier bullet. I can pull some bullets and find out myself, however, I don't want to spend $20 to find out.

Darren

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcb

That's a nasty can of worms. The amount of powder in a case is really not a good indication of the amount of chemical energy stored. Powders vary in density of the actual compound, and their bulk density depending on if the powder is made into various shaped grains (ie ball powder, flake powder, stick powders) Shape of the grains, density and chemical makeup of the grains and the fillers use greatly effect the total energy per unit mass and how fast the powder burns. This burn rate is very critical. As you go from light bullet to heavy bullets you generally need to reduce your burn rate to keep pressures down. But there are other factors, heavier bullet take up more room in the case. As case volume is reduce chamber pressure start to climb so you have to watch that. Bullet shape and contact area with the barrel effect pressure. There are many other thing you must consider.

So simply weighing the powder charge in two different cartridges does not really tell you to much. You can literally take X amount of powder A with bullet type Z and create a relative low velocity load, but if you substituted the same X about of another powder B with the same bullet type Z and you might end up blowing your gun up.

mcb

SteveW1958 · 01-11-2006, 01:42 PM

I think what mcb meant there is no way of knowing what power Wiinchester is using in different bullets. There is a good chance they use different powders & lots in the 115 vs 147. It most likely will vary from lot to lot in the same bullet. The powders that commercial loaders use is not as consistent lot to lot as the powders we can buy retail. The manufactures have the means to test and compensate for the lot to lot variances.
If the powder is identical in each the 147 would have less powder than the 115.

01-11-2006, 10:48 AM	#1
ExtremeShot XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Metro-East St. Louis NOT East St. Louis Posts: 106	Factory Ammo - Amount of powder VS Bullet Weight I was talking with a guy today that was comparing 9mm Winchester white box ammo. He was thinking that the powder amount increased as it went from 115 gr. bullets up to 147 gr. I was thinking the powder amount was probably the same and only the bullet weight increased?? Has anyone ever pulled white box ammo and done a comparison like this? ....I hate to have to go buy some ammo in order find out the answer...I usually load my own. Thanks, Darren PS: Also, if the powder remained the same, would a larger (i.e. 147 gr.) bullet result in less felt recoil (versus say a 115 gr.)? Thx __________________ --------------------------------- Now, Therefore, It Be And Is Hereby Resolved, that the people of Illinois, do oppose the enactment of any legislation that would infringe upon the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms, and deem such laws to be Unconstitutional and beyond lawful Legislative Authority.

01-11-2006, 12:48 PM	#2
mcb XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North East Ohio Posts: 2,052	That's a nasty can of worms. The amount of powder in a case is really not a good indication of the amount of chemical energy stored. Powders vary in density of the actual compound, and their bulk density depending on if the powder is made into various shaped grains (ie ball powder, flake powder, stick powders) Shape of the grains, density and chemical makeup of the grains and the fillers use greatly effect the total energy per unit mass and how fast the powder burns. This burn rate is very critical. As you go from light bullet to heavy bullets you generally need to reduce your burn rate to keep pressures down. But there are other factors, heavier bullet take up more room in the case. As case volume is reduce chamber pressure start to climb so you have to watch that. Bullet shape and contact area with the barrel effect pressure. There are many other thing you must consider. So simply weighing the powder charge in two different cartridges does not really tell you to much. You can literally take X amount of powder A with bullet type Z and create a relative low velocity load, but if you substituted the same X about of another powder B with the same bullet type Z and you might end up blowing your gun up. mcb __________________ If at first you don't succeed; RELOAD _ _ _ _ My web site

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01-11-2006, 01:42 PM	#4
SteveW1958 XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: SW PA Posts: 380	I think what mcb meant there is no way of knowing what power Wiinchester is using in different bullets. There is a good chance they use different powders & lots in the 115 vs 147. It most likely will vary from lot to lot in the same bullet. The powders that commercial loaders use is not as consistent lot to lot as the powders we can buy retail. The manufactures have the means to test and compensate for the lot to lot variances. If the powder is identical in each the 147 would have less powder than the 115.