.40 sw case leangth and head spacing

[dstorm1911]

I've been reloading for over 30 years, but just started loading for the .40 S&W as mentioned in another thread I've been running 100 rnd value packs of UMC and Winchester through a new Tactical .40 to collect up brass to start loading for it 1000 rounds of each All the UMC stuff loaded beutifully very consistant and zero issues however the Winchester brass has been a nightmare to work with its so inconsistant quality wise, well one issue is the case leangths every manual lists the correct leangth at .850 ALL of the UMC cases mic out at .847 to .849 now the Winchester stuff is really making me wish I'd kept it sorted by the boxes the ammo came from as its anywhere fron the shortest I've found at .819 to the longest being .843 most are around .833

the brass thickness and hardness is a complete shot in the dark some are so soft I can actually press the bullets in with hardly any pressure from my fingers etc..

Out of curiosity I got a bunch of misc. range brass together and started measuring it the case leangths are pretty random Speer averages .833 Hornandy .847 ETC.. the UMC is the closest to the .850 listed. I've loaded millions of rounds of .45 ACP and know how important correct case leangth is for head spacing but am not sure about the .40 and the XD in particular. I'm assuming they head space off the case mounth like a .45 ACP round but am not sure....

[SteveW1958]

I've been reloading a lot of WWB brass in .40 with zero problems. I full length resize the cases and have never had loose bullets or setback issues. When you bell the case mouth be sure to only open it up just a hair. .40 S&W does headspace off the case mouth. What bullets have you been using.

[ichy_trigger]

I accually prefer Winchester brass in my .40. I dont measure case length, I just load it up, shoot it 6-8 times and leave it lay. I have never had any accuracy or reliability issues with any of my .40 rounds. The .40 in an XD isnt as finicky of a feeder as the .45 in a 1911 can be. I use 180 grain bullets and load them to 1.130 OAL for regular loads and with a fast powder like VV320, I load to 1.145 OAL. Universal clays is a very nice powder for the .40 and is in the midrange for burn rate which keeps presures well within limits while filling the case completely. I was loading 5.3 grains at 1.130 OAL but I switched to VV320 for a shorter recoil pulse in a competition load.

One side note, reloaded S&B brass will not feed in my XD. It hangs up on the case web which must be a bit thicker than domestic brass.

[JD McDorce]

Originally Posted by dstorm1911

every manual lists the correct leangth at .850

My manuals list .850 as the max case length for .40S&W. Starline makes some interesting comments regarding case lengths here: http://www.starlinebrass.com/descriptions.html

3.) Why is Starline, Inc. brass shorter than the trim-to-length in our reloading manual?

Trim-to-lengths given in most manuals often confuse people if they are unsure of their actual purpose. Most manuals generate their own trim-to-lengths from SAAMI maximum cartridge drawings. They usually pick a number just below the SAAMI maximum and state this as the recommended trim-to-length. Depending on specific caliber, some cases will shrink and others will grow when fired and reloaded. The trim-to-length is trying to say: "If case is longer than trim-to-length, then trim back to this." The confusion comes in when people purchase new brass and want to trim it back to trim-to-length stated in the manual. One must understand that a manufacturer will not produce cases at maximum length and that we as manufacturers must have a reasonable tolerance to work with. Most people do not wish to trim brass, so at Starline, Inc., we operate a tolerance of .005 below SAAMI maximum and that window ranges from .003 to .010 below, depending on the caliber. All auto-feeding cartridges are held within .004, and revolver normally is within .005.

The trim-to-length we recommend for peak performance is a variation of no more than .005 and length within .010 of published trim-to-lengths, but never exceeding trim-to-lengths.

Remember, consistency in length relating to consistent crimp is more important than all cases being the same length as the trim-to-length in manuals, assuming it is not too long.

[gaspipes]

Originally Posted by ichy_trigger

One side note, reloaded S&B brass will not feed in my XD. It hangs up on the case web which must be a bit thicker than domestic brass.

Get yourself a Lee Factory Crimp die for the .40SW(and any other caliber) and I believe it will solve that problem. It sizes the case more than the normal die.

It will also solve the bullet setback problem because it does a tapper crimp like no other die can do when most other dies use the bullet seating die as the crimpper in the same operation. You just add the LFCD at the end of your regular reloading procedure. In a Dillon 550B you have 4 die holes in the head. Size/decap, powder drop/flare, seat/crimp, and an empty. Use the empty for the LFCD and back out the seating die so it will seat only.

I know this because after you shoot .40SW in a fatory Glock barrel, that brass when reloaded can no longer be shot in many other .40 barrels, especially any kind of match barrel like a barsto or a KKM. I had all kinds of brass that would not feed completely into the chamber of a KKM barrel. Once I ran them through the Lee FCD die, that problem never occured again.

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/cat...ies-crimp.html

PISTOL
For Handgun Ammunition That Must Work!

Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge while it is being crimped so every round will positvely chamber freely with factory like dependability. The adjustig screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. It is impossible to buckle the case as with a conventional bullet seating die. Trim length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition. It eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.

[dstorm1911]

Thanks for the replies, I do use Lee Factory crimp dies for every round I load,

The load I settled on (I tried 100 rounds of each published load) and the one that will make a near single ragged hole from my Ransom rest is

155 grn Lasercast LRNSWC
4.8 grns of W231 (Need to try working with some of the fin powder yet)
Primer WSP set at .003"
Case leangth .848" UMC cases
OAL 1.135"
Lee factory crimped with a light crimp
velocity out of my gun is 987 FPS

only mods to the XD Tac was that I reworked the trigger to a 2.8 lb pull, recut the sear/striker angles for a faster reset added an over travel stop and set pretravel to 1/32" (basically the trigger safty is your pretravel)

the sights were swapped to PT-Night sights after playing with my SIG Armourers set to find the correct front/rear combination for the bullet weight/velosity I wanted to work with.

BTW for those wanting a dot the I type sight set and cheap ya can get the whole SIG set from CDN Sports for $14.99 they are a medium DOT front (different heights to choose from) and a vertical line rear again 4 different rears to choose from to match the load your shooting etc..

I carry one of several 1911s built on Caspian frames/slides for CCW the XD is primarily being setup as a competition/experiment gun so I can play with the .40 S&W cartridge etc...

my concern is in the inconsistant quality of the Winchester brass as out of a thousand measured 227 measure out with a case leangth of .819" which is way under the SAMMI spec of .850 and well under the .010" inch variation limit mentioned in the quoted artical posted above most are at .832 - .835 with a bunch at .842"

this has got to be wreaking havoc on headspacing granted if a whole box of 100 are at .823" ya aren't going to see much of an accuracy issue as that box will all headspace the same etc... but how about reloading a mixed batch of the brass from say 10 boxes (my sample on hand) then your crimp as well as OAL is going to become erratic as hell.....

in fact a Lee factory crimp die set for a light crimp on say a .842" case won't be providing any crimp at all when ya run a .819" case through the die........ also what are the presures generated looking like as one case being shoter will provide less resistance than the longer case even if ya actully reset the die to accomodate the shorter case so that the crimp is equal ya still got more brass holding one bullet than the other.... this is where the diferent case hardnesses and thicknesses also comes into play a thicker case is going to be crimped tighter than the thinnner case.......

[gaspipes]

dstorm, honestly you sound like a bench rest shooter.

I don't know, I've never trimmed a pistol case and have been reloading for 20 years. Never had one get so long it wouldn't go in the chamber. I usually loose them or they split before then. I'll keep an eye on this thread to see what anyone else has to say.

[dstorm1911]

Originally Posted by gaspipes

dstorm, honestly you sound like a bench rest shooter.

I don't know, I've never trimmed a pistol case and have been reloading for 20 years. Never had one get so long it wouldn't go in the chamber. I usually loose them or they split before then. I'll keep an eye on this thread to see what anyone else has to say.

Gaspipes, LOL! Not really I just like to play I figured out real fast that these XDs were capable of some serious accuracy, I've developed loads for most of the guns I shoot frequently that are in the 1" to 1.25" grouping range, If I can get one of my .45s shooting same hole from a machine rest then that elliminates any excuses for misses its deffinetly not gun or ammo related etc..

I never adjust sights for windage and elevation only to match a given bullet/velocity combination I laser boresight every handgun and set the sights dead on that dot at 25 yards windage is no longer needed and once the correct elevation has been found (at 25 yards its usually the same as were the laser puts it) any deviation or miss is a result of shooting form problems OR barrel fit but most commonly its the latter especially if its putting em all in the same place from the Ransom rest LOL

If a gun is that accurate under controled conditions then its going to be that much more effective under high stress situations when you are not at your best etc... I spent 9 years as a member of a very specialized unit in the Army if our sidearm was anything less that surgical someone most likally died ............