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40 cal. load data?

This is a discussion on 40 cal. load data? within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; looking for load data for 180 gr Berry's with tite group powder, other powder ok. Thanks Jeff...


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Old 02-14-2009, 05:15 PM   #1
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40 cal. load data?

looking for load data for 180 gr Berry's with tite group powder,
other powder ok. Thanks Jeff
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Old 02-14-2009, 07:06 PM   #2
mcb
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Here is the load I was using for USPSA. I chronographed three different charges of Titegroup using Berry's 180gr RNFP bullets. The velocity was measured with a Chrony Alpha chronograph. The gun used was my XD-40 Tactical.

Powder: 4.15gr Titegroup
Primer: Federal Match
Bullet: 180gr Berry's RNFP
OAL: 1.125inch
Crimp: 0.421inch
Average Velocity: 888.2fps
Power Factor: 159.9


Powder: 4.3gr Titegroup
Primer: Federal Match
Bullet: 180gr Berry's RNFP
OAL: 1.125inch
Crimp: 0.421inch
Average Velocity: 920.5fps
Power Factor: 165.7


Powder: 4.5gr Titegroup
Primer: Federal Match
Bullet: 180gr Berry's RNFP
OAL: 1.125inch
Crimp: 0.421inch
Average Velocity: 960.0fps
Power Factor: 172.8

Hope that is helpful.
mcb
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb View Post
Powder: 4.5gr Titegroup
Primer: Federal Match
Bullet: 180gr Berry's RNFP
OAL: 1.125inch
Crimp: 0.421inch
Average Velocity: 960.0fps
Power Factor: 172.8

Hope that is helpful.
mcb
I'm not a big fan of TG or other uberfast powders in high pressure rounds like the 40. If you stay off max. loads you can be fine, but watch your OAL & be cautious of bullet setback from rechambering.
MCB, your load above is running the edge as plated bullets like to be loaded w/ lead bullet data.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:32 AM   #4
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Tightgroup and factory length 180gr loads is BAD JUJU
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I'm not a big fan of TG or other uberfast powders in high pressure rounds like the 40. If you stay off max. loads you can be fine, but watch your OAL & be cautious of bullet setback from rechambering.
MCB, your load above is running the edge as plated bullets like to be loaded w/ lead bullet data.
According to Hodgdons online data they recommend a maximum load of 4.7 grains of titegroup under a 180gr bullet. This generates only 33,000psi with max pressure for 40S&W being 35,000psi.

I do agree that the last load is pushing it for Berry plated bullets. That last 4.5gr load will peal the plating off the bullets.

Example 1
Example 2

I have long since switched away from Berry's. Just about the time I had gotten them to USPSA Major power factor I had problems with the plating coming off and that makes the accuracy drop off badly.

I have gotten much better results with Montana Gold and Precision Delta bullets. Montana Gold being the better (by quite a bit) of the two IMHO. I had been using Vihtavuori N320 and N340 powder, but am switching back to Titegroup for the cost. I have never used a powder as clean as Vihtavuori but it hard to beat the economics of Titegroup for target loads.

My new Titegroup loads with probably be bumped out to 1.135-1.140 inch OAL which is about as long as I can get them to feed out of the XD magazine reliably and I also have since used a tighter crimp of 0.419 inch.

rambling
mcb
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb View Post
According to Hodgdons online data they recommend a maximum load of 4.7 grains of titegroup under a 180gr bullet. This generates only 33,000psi with max pressure for 40S&W being 35,000psi.

I do agree that the last load is pushing it for Berry plated bullets. That last 4.5gr load will peal the plating off the bullets.

Example 1
Example 2

My new Titegroup loads with probably be bumped out to 1.135-1.140 inch OAL which is about as long as I can get them to feed out of the XD magazine reliably and I also have since used a tighter crimp of 0.419 inch.

rambling
mcb
You make it sound like 2Kpsi is a big jump. Well, 3K-5Kpsi can be eaten up pretty quickly by switching primers or a bullet setback as little as 0.01" or using the jacketed data for plated or lead. Then what everybody seems to neglect, is that data is only good in new components & tight test chambers. You are rolling the dice on uberfasts & heavy bullets running anything close to max. Eventually it will bite you.
FWIW, I doubt much plating is being peeled off @ 950fps. I have run Berry's 124gr in my 357sig to 1200fps w/ exc. accuracy. Go to 1300fps & things start to slip. Are you using the LFCD on your handloads? This has caused all kinds of accuracy issues w/ plated bullets. Overcrimping is the culprit. Either stop using the LFCD or back it off so you are not apllying so much crimp. When I load Berry's or Ranier, I use a std. taper crimp die & just turn the case mouth back.
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Old 02-15-2009, 07:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
You make it sound like 2Kpsi is a big jump. Well, 3K-5Kpsi can be eaten up pretty quickly by switching primers or a bullet setback as little as 0.01" or using the jacketed data for plated or lead. Then what everybody seems to neglect, is that data is only good in new components & tight test chambers. You are rolling the dice on uberfasts & heavy bullets running anything close to max. Eventually it will bite you.
FWIW, I doubt much plating is being peeled off @ 950fps. I have run Berry's 124gr in my 357sig to 1200fps w/ exc. accuracy. Go to 1300fps & things start to slip. Are you using the LFCD on your handloads? This has caused all kinds of accuracy issues w/ plated bullets. Overcrimping is the culprit. Either stop using the LFCD or back it off so you are not apllying so much crimp. When I load Berry's or Ranier, I use a std. taper crimp die & just turn the case mouth back.
It would be a rare case when a change of primer (assuming were not going form std to magnum) will change pressure by 3-5Kpsi. Maybe if we were talking about a really hot compressed powder load but not in the case of a Titegroup load that barely fills the case 1/3 full. As for the plating peeling it was doing it anytime I got much over 920fps in both of my XD-40 and my S&W 610. The links in my above post were to pictures of targets showing the evidence of plating peeling. Changing the crimp (standard Dillon crimp die) did not help much.

Certain there are dangers to using Titegroup, a double charge and in some cases a triple charge will fit in the case. Other slower bulkier powders makes a double charge far harder to do. Powder check stations on a reloader can help reduce this risk. For competition loads in 40cal for the moderate velocity 180gr loads Titegroup is a very popular choice that is as economical, light recoiling, and fairly clean.

YMMV
mcb
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb View Post
It would be a rare case when a change of primer (assuming were not going form std to magnum) will change pressure by 3-5Kpsi. Maybe if we were talking about a really hot compressed powder load but not in the case of a Titegroup load that barely fills the case 1/3 full. As for the plating peeling it was doing it anytime I got much over 920fps in both of my XD-40 and my S&W 610. The links in my above post were to pictures of targets showing the evidence of plating peeling. Changing the crimp (standard Dillon crimp die) did not help much.

Certain there are dangers to using Titegroup, a double charge and in some cases a triple charge will fit in the case. Other slower bulkier powders makes a double charge far harder to do. Powder check stations on a reloader can help reduce this risk. For competition loads in 40cal for the moderate velocity 180gr loads Titegroup is a very popular choice that is as economical, light recoiling, and fairly clean.

YMMV
mcb
The volumn that TG occupies is not what causes a pressure problem, it's the vert. pressure curve. Yes, I was talking about std. vs mag primers. I see it all the time; "I loaded this w/ a mag primer by mistake". The diff. of a mag primer w/ TG running max. is going to cause trouble, add bullet setback, bang! I'll bet more guns are KB w/ TG & BE, than any other powder. It's fine, an experienced loader can run all day w/ TG, BE, etc & not get into trouble, but newbs, bad juju, KB just waiting to happen. I've seen PCD work & would not want to trust them to accurately trigger such a small volumn charge.
FWIW, moderate vel. have nothing to do w/ pressures generated. I'm sure you know that, but 180gr 40 o/ TG has to work hard to make major. You can easily get to 900fps w/ a host of other powders & run 8K-10K less pressure. Margin for error, safety zone. That's why I do NOT recommend uberfasts for newbs or even exp. loaders in high pressure rounds except for wimp loads. Even then, TG occupies so little case it's hard to visually verify powder drops & a squib is almost as bad as a double.
Other ecomonimcal powders that occupy almost double the space per grain are WST, Solo, RedDot. Still too fast for anything but light to midrange loads though IMO. Cost of powder is just not enough diff. to base my handloads on. It's the cheapest part of a reload.
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Last edited by fredj338; 02-16-2009 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:16 PM   #9
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Thanks for the good info and data
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:29 PM   #10
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I'm with Fred on this one. WSF is the powder for me when loading 40's
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