Looking for AK Knowledge

[furtjager117]

Just sold my Arsenal SLR-101s for can and toy money for my AR-10. Loved the hell out of it though and would buy one again if I wanted an AK pattern rifle.

[einheit 13]

Originally Posted by elliotriley

The 47 is more powerful, but you also get cons with that. Heavier and bulkier ammo, more recoil, and higher costs. 74 ammo is about the same as 5.56 with power and its soooo cheap when people aren't freaking out about ammo. You can usually get two 1080 round tins for just over $300 (max $350). Let that price point sink in for a minute... The average I pay per round for 5.45 is $0.13.

I beg to differ. The 5,45 projectile is equal to the M43/M67 round. The 5,45 has a harder time with heavier barriers, but thats why they make solid core ammo. Same principal as the 5.56s SS109. The 5,45 ball will out penetrate the 5.56. The 5,45 give you more range, a flatter trajectory, and a lighter weapon than the AKM. The AKM, the AKM-74, and the AK-10x series are lighter than the AK-47 because they use a stamped receiver. The AK-47 (type 2) uses a milled receiver. The original AK-47 used reinforced stamped receivers, but it was too complicated, the heat treating sucked, and going the old way of milling kept the tolerances closer from weapon to weapon.

The 5.56 out shines the 5,45. It is a better design with it only one major draw back. The straight walled case. When you look at the 7.62x39, the 5,45x39.5 vs the 5,56x45, you can see what I mean. The tapered chambers make extraction easier.

By the way, when it comes to calibre, they all destroy the body. Terminal ballistics are very acceptable on all three. All have made thousands of corpses. I am a 5,45 fanatic. Same with anything 9mm (except the 380ACP, I can't stand that sorry performer) in handguns. Been around longer than any other in constant military service. Same with the 7.62x54R. The OLDEST round still in circulation!

[SHOOT]

Originally Posted by elliotriley

The 47 is more powerful, but you also get cons with that. Heavier and bulkier ammo, more recoil, and higher costs. 74 ammo is about the same as 5.56 with power and its soooo cheap when people aren't freaking out about ammo. You can usually get two 1080 round tins for just over $300 (max $350). Let that price point sink in for a minute... The average I pay per round for 5.45 is $0.13.

Thanks. And speaking about 5.56 (.223), seems to be like the discussions about the difference between .223 and .308, I guess? With the .308 being the more powerful round. Guess another reason why placement matters more with a smaller caliber bullet. But does anyone feel that they would be missing not having the big, bad AK47?

[elliotriley]

Originally Posted by einheit 13

I beg to differ. The 5,45 projectile is equal to the M43/M67 round. The 5,45 has a harder time with heavier barriers, but thats why they make solid core ammo. Same principal as the 5.56s SS109. The 5,45 ball will out penetrate the 5.56. The 5,45 give you more range, a flatter trajectory, and a lighter weapon than the AKM. The AKM, the AKM-74, and the AK-10x series are lighter than the AK-47 because they use a stamped receiver. The AK-47 (type 2) uses a milled receiver. The original AK-47 used reinforced stamped receivers, but it was too complicated, the heat treating sucked, and going the old way of milling kept the tolerances closer from weapon to weapon.

The 5.56 out shines the 5,45. It is a better design with it only one major draw back. The straight walled case. When you look at the 7.62x39, the 5,45x39.5 vs the 5,56x45, you can see what I mean. The tapered chambers make extraction easier.

By the way, when it comes to calibre, they all destroy the body. Terminal ballistics are very acceptable on all three. All have made thousands of corpses. I am a 5,45 fanatic. Same with anything 9mm (except the 380ACP, I can't stand that sorry performer) in handguns. Been around longer than any other in constant military service. Same with the 7.62x54R. The OLDEST round still in circulation!

Your argument made me think of this, haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhs8kDoMXRI

[SHOOT]

Originally Posted by einheit 13

I beg to differ. The 5,45 projectile is equal to the M43/M67 round. The 5,45 has a harder time with heavier barriers, but thats why they make solid core ammo. Same principal as the 5.56s SS109. The 5,45 ball will out penetrate the 5.56. The 5,45 give you more range, a flatter trajectory, and a lighter weapon than the AKM. The AKM, the AKM-74, and the AK-10x series are lighter than the AK-47 because they use a stamped receiver. The AK-47 (type 2) uses a milled receiver. The original AK-47 used reinforced stamped receivers, but it was too complicated, the heat treating sucked, and going the old way of milling kept the tolerances closer from weapon to weapon.

The 5.56 out shines the 5,45. It is a better design with it only one major draw back. The straight walled case. When you look at the 7.62x39, the 5,45x39.5 vs the 5,56x45, you can see what I mean. The tapered chambers make extraction easier.

By the way, when it comes to calibre, they all destroy the body. Terminal ballistics are very acceptable on all three. All have made thousands of corpses. I am a 5,45 fanatic. Same with anything 9mm (except the 380ACP, I can't stand that sorry performer) in handguns. Been around longer than any other in constant military service. Same with the 7.62x54R. The OLDEST round still in circulation!

Man, am I floating in a dingy in the middle of the ocean (ha). Where are my friends that could talk your language? Not only the rifle, but ammo, is probably the biggest part when considering which one to get. Again, my friend who I wish would chime in here, prefers the 74 and one bit of info that he told me (taken out of text) is . . .

"Ideally, a milled receiver, side folding stocked AK-74 would be perfect. Extremely durable, very accurate and yet compact. A tad bit heavier, ( maybe ) than an M4, but with currently offered rail system adapters, the -74 could be jazzed up/equipped with any of the bells and whistles, ( lights, lasers, bipods, etc ) that can be mounted on an M4. With a Cold Hammer Forged, chrome lined barrel, it would have one helluva long barrel life. . . regardless of dirty/tracer/high volumes of ammo fired from it. Current mil-issue M4 barrels are NOT CHF, just chrome lined".

[elliotriley]

Here's a short ammo comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VFkgZij5eg

[SHOOT]

Originally Posted by elliotriley

Your argument made me think of this, haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhs8kDoMXRI

Ha ha, did he ever get around to saying which one he preferred? I had to leave it.

[SHOOT]

Originally Posted by elliotriley

Here's a short ammo comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VFkgZij5eg

Very interesting comments below that vid, as well. Especially having to do with application (i.e. buildng type, distance, etc.). Having said that, maybe not a decisive winner at all between the two and need to get both, like alot have done.

[Minkman555]

I never looked into the 74's .. I assumed saigas were AK-47(AKM) ... Is the saiga 5.45 a 74??

I've been interested in the 5.45 saiga , but with the current situation I'm holding off because if they ban ammo imports I would be sol.

[einheit 13]

That guy is an idiot. Yes the USSR followed the same design theory as the Americans. More ammo, same weight. Small, light, fast, accurate. Commercial 5.56 ball doesn't frag, only certain variations. 5,45 was designed to yaw, just like the Yugo M67 redesign of the M43 Russian 7.62x39. The Yugos designed a better round. The 5,45 ballistics were on purpose, not accident. The 5.56 is a short, fat bullet. 5,45 is long and slender. Kinda like the difference between a rugby ball vs an American foot ball. Simple physics dictate that the 5,45 will penetrate better simply because of its shape. 5.56 is a multi role design, the 5,45 isn't. 5,45 sniper weapons didn't last long because the round was no good for it both in the needed accuracy and 1 shot take downs. There was no room for left for upgrades when the round was designed. look at the hiostory and deployment of the SSG 82. The 5,45 was designed for one weapon, the AKM-74 with a 16" barrel. It gave acceptable performance from a PDW, the AKSU.
he went to college to figure out which book to read....I have trigger time behind both calibres in military service. I've seen what both rounds do to the human body. School of hard knocks...book smarts don't apply. If it did it would reveal that bumble bees are too aerodynamically unstable to fly, yet they do!