XD Talk

apamburn · 07-25-2012, 11:09 PM

I've been (am still am) chewing over the carbine caliber / platform argument, but my main two competitors have been 5.56/.223 and 7.62x39, primarily because of price and availability.

The 7.62 has won out for me (at least until I read a valid argument convincing me to reconsider).

The 5.56 seems to be too reliant on perfect circumstances. If the bullet reaches it's target above 3000 fps and if it is not deflected by any obstacles (branches, windshields, etc) and if the target is not protected by anything, then the bullet will fragment/tumble as designed.

The 7.62x39, however, seems to be a little more...well, dependable, though less high tech.

It might not be effective at the same ranges as the 5.56, but I intend to use it in a carbine which (for me) means I really only intend it to be effective to 200 yards or so, which I understand is about the point where the 7.62x39 really starts to drop.

As far as platform goes, I'm looking at the AK47. I want my carbine to be useful in places and conditions where a full sized rifle cannot go or be (or else I would just take my rifle...).

If it isn't shorter, fold-able, lighter, and easier to shoot than my rifle, it isn't what I'm looking for.

I think an AK with 16 inch barrel and folding ATI stock should fit that bill quite nicely.

Any thoughts? Opinions to the contrary? Confirmations of my conclusions?

I have a budget of about $700. What are my options AK experts?

Also, can 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 shells be loaded with the exact same bullets?

Rob2 · 07-25-2012, 11:26 PM

Your gonna open a can of worms with that bit about the two calibers, the 5.56 wasnt "designed" to tumble, it just does. The 5.56/.223 was liked because of how flat a trajectory it has and other yadda yadda stuff

There is no such thing as perfect conditions for a round to work it will never happen unless you got like an indoor 200yd+ range at the perfect humidity and altitude/pressure inside and no air drafts.

Whichever is easier for you to get ammo for and get parts for is what i would pick unless you just plain like it better than the other

As for the 7.62 bullet itself yes the bullet can be put in both casings but the powder behind them and the bulle weights and lengths will vary depending on what you want

He first number 7.62 is bullet size, the second 39, 51, 54 etc is casing length so a 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R have the same bullet but are very different rounds

Both rounds and platforms are just as good within that 200yd limit you want and they both can be had with the 16"bbl and folding stock etc. And with a 16" bbl any gun will start to lack at long ranges

Its really a matter of preference and whats available. I went with an ar because i like the look of them and the recoil is so manageable i can see the bullet strike and never have to worry about getting back on target, again just my preference as i would like to own both an ar and ak but could only get one lol

Mikey's XDM · 07-26-2012, 08:40 AM

5.45 ammo is SUPER cheap and availability seems to be solid. I purchased 1500 rounds for $300 a few weeks ago.

JBubbs · 07-26-2012, 09:00 AM

So what exactly are you using it for? My buddy had the ATI folding stock on his AK and hated it, the hinge kept poking him in the face when he shot it. I just got rid of my AK in favor of the AR and ain't goin back. If you're thinking reliability, well an AK is only as reliable as the mags you use

Knightslugger · 07-26-2012, 09:17 AM

AK47's 7.62x39 is almost worthless past about 300 yards (making scoping it kind of ridiculous).

AK74's 5.45x39 is a much better cartridge. faster than .223, and over half the cost comparatively. i have not seen a 5.45x39 that was not steel cored. but i am not the end all either.

Kedric · 07-26-2012, 03:31 PM

personally I am not a fan of the AK. range issues, magazine issues, I personally think it's ugly as sin, and let's not get into accuracy issues (at least in my experience, YMMV of course!) I got rid of mine within months of getting it.

Then again, I prefer .308/7.62x51 over either caliber.

Knightslugger · 07-26-2012, 03:42 PM

AR15 lower, AR15 5.45x39 upper

super win.

apamburn · 07-26-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBubbs

So what exactly are you using it for? My buddy had the ATI folding stock on his AK and hated it, the hinge kept poking him in the face when he shot it. I just got rid of my AK in favor of the AR and ain't goin back. If you're thinking reliability, well an AK is only as reliable as the mags you use

My purpose is this:

1. A car carbine. I want my carbine to be more compact and easier to store in my vehicle than my rifle.

2. My wife's SHTF weapon. She has difficulty handling a 12 gauge shotgun and a full sized rifle, so the carbine is a good compromise.

3. An intermediate caliber, compact weapon for SHTF in urban areas, which is effective in buildings, across streets, or across the park.

Can anyone imagine an urban SHTF self defense situation requiring a shot longer than 200 yds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kedric

personally I am not a fan of the AK. range issues, magazine issues, I personally think it's ugly as sin, and let's not get into accuracy issues (at least in my experience, YMMV of course!) I got rid of mine within months of getting it.

Then again, I prefer .308/7.62x51 over either caliber.

As do I. This carbine is intended for situations and places where a 7.62x51 is too powerful or the rifle cannot be taken.

---

As for the 5.45, I don't know much about it, but I don know that I generally like .30 cal or larger.

How does it perform?

Bonehead · 07-26-2012, 07:28 PM

nsfw (big boy words)

Z-Boys Favorite AKM Kalashnikov - YouTube

You Tube

militaryaddicted · 07-26-2012, 07:59 PM

The debate on the AR-15 and the AK-47 since 1963. The AK was made in 1949. The AK is a cheap gun and expensive ammo(7.62X39) the AR is a expensive gun and cheap ammo(5.56 nato or .223) Both weapons can be taken apart without tools. The AR takes longer but that's because it's better manufactured. Yeah the AK you can put it in the bottom of the lake for a year and it can still fire but won't be that accurate. You can modify the AR to do the same thing. The AR is a awesome gun to shoot for accurate very reliable. But my gun of choice would be the AR-15. Also yeah i know this is civilian world but the AR in fully automatic is way more accurate then the full auto on the Ak-47(I know this is not in the topic i'm just giving my opinion My favorite attack rifle is not an assault riffle it is a sub machine gun. I wish they made a civilian version of it. It's the G36C(C means compact or commando) Is made by hecklor and Koch a German company. It is a sub machine gun but it takes an assault rifle round the 5.56 NATO. It can be fully submerged in water locked and loaded and you can still fire very accurate. It's effective up to 300 meters.

-Nick